Joe, the way the military is used today, submission holds make sense. Taking prisoners, handling mobs (ala Haiti), etc. If they want to kill, they have rifles. When I was at the JRTC (a program which trains units for specific mission types) one of our big scenarios was crowd control and civilian handling. When playing a starving haitian, I stole some MRE's from a soldier, who promptly "shot" me. I think a submission hold would have been apropriate, neh? Also, the main focus of the USMCMA program is team tactics. This is the biggest difference between it and any other style I've seen. This may be a "gimmick" to you, but it seems like common sense to me.