Thinking about it in terms of "can an x beat an x" is flawed I think, that is never the whole story what is happening.

I'm not saying it can't be used like that, i'm saying that by the vast majority of Judoka it isn't used like that, so saying that it can be used against strikes is pointless, since hardly any strict Judoka are doing that, you have no training example to draw from.

I'd also argue a bit with the clinch thing, playing Judo randori (which I didn't do a ton of, but enough to get some general ideas) one of the first things I noticed is I had to actively turn off the part of my brain that looks for strike openings, because the grips and kazushi movements open up a ton of them for you. In some cases if you were fighting a non judoka that decided to just shield their face with an elbow as you set them up for your tai otoshi or whatnot, you would eat the elbow without some major modification. And once again, using Judo on a non Judoka who doesn't want to be thrown, or is much bigger than you..totally different deal than setting up another player with combo throws or counters.

I found what a lot of what I learned in my time doing it extremely valuable, and I didn't even do it that long! However i'm also pretty convinced it would an error to call the training geared towards self defense or some kind of broad real world application, the training is pretty much geared towards winning Judo competition..there may be some intersection, but they aren't the same animal.

Again, i'm not talking about "can a judoka beat a striker, an anything can beat an anything. I'm just talking about conclusions you can probably draw based on training method.

AS far as whether it can be used as is..well, any combat sport training is intense and hands on enough that it will give the practitioner a huge leg up in a real world situation, that isn't quite the same thing as saying the combat sport is good real world self protection training, rugby or football would give plenty of people a leg up too, that doesn't mean it's training geared for that.

Anyway thanks for the talk, it was interesting..and it's a fun area to play with.

Edited by Zach_Zinn (06/27/11 06:00 PM)