To a certain extent yes. I'm not saying Judo is a great art for blocking strikes. To say that you will learn NOTHING in Judo that will help you avoid being struck is not entirely correct IMO though. The footwork used in Judo is useful in breaking grips and keeping you out of arms reach. Doesn't matter if a person is going to grab you or punch you, if you are out of arms reach neither of those things are going to happen. Additionly as I mentioned, in Judo it is possible to immobilize a persons arms or restrict their movement somewhat, which should reduce the risk of being punched.

It isn't an art at all for blocking, evading, receiving, reciprocating strikes.

Unless of course the Judoka in question are actually training against strikes while grip fighting. Usually they aren't training like that. It's certainly possible to use the grips to immobilize, but you first need to actually know to deal with actual incoming percussive force, and know how to turn that into grips - a whole different animal than just grip attempts, much of the grip fighting only will work against the grips, and would fare poorly against committed strikes, IMO. That's saying nothing of the fact that throwing a Judoka is gonna be different than throwing a non Judoka who is trying to hit you..

As an example of the footwork/body movement in Judo that keeps a person out of arms reach, watch this clip from the excellent Jimmy Pedro/Rhadi Ferguson DVD about grip fighitng. Note how Rhadi moves out of arms reach at around 0:45 to stop Jimmy getting a grip. This same movement could be used to avoid a punch IMO:

Just moving out of reach isn't that great against a dedicated attacker trying to take your head off IMO, other than buy a few seconds, or simply get away. If you are engaging then with lateral movement you may have something. Still just because something can be used a certain way doesn't mean you know how to do something else by default. This is akin to the argument you seein Karate circles sometimes about the "grappling" found in Karate, sure it's there, sure the movements can work, that doesn't mean doing a few arm twistings in a Karate context makes you a grappler.

Having studied both, I think a Judo offers more ways to deal with being struck with punches (or other arm strikes) than the other way round.

Judo offers zero in terms of not getting hit, because Judoka don't train against that, or even with that in mind. AS impressed as I was with Judo, I can say unequivocally that they are last the people I would ask at all about striking, blocking strikes etc..it was clearly not part of their skillset at all, and I feel quite confident that my years in Karate would serve me much, much, better than Judo ever could in terms of dealing with strikes...because i learn to deal with strikes with someone hitting me.

Unless the Judo is being trained that way what you are talking about is purely theoretical.

Worse than ranged punches closing the gap is actually what could be done with hitting with elbows an knees in the entry phase of a Judo throw anyway . There are a ton of bad openings for strikes you create when you grip fight and play the Judo chess game...because Judo randori isn't meant to teach a single thing about striking, i'm a little amazed that this notion is being argued against, especially here of all places!

Judo is fantastic at what it does, but to claim it's carries with it automatic success outside of Judo is a flawed argument. What makes Judo so awesome is precisely the fact that the live training is completely focused on that environment, it would not works quite the same in real life.

Another example in keeping with the OP is how kazushi and and throws would have to function outside of Judo. In randori it seems like throws function as counters, or are often set up with combo throws. There two things work because you are fighting another judoka, sure they could be adapted outside of Judo...but the reason they function the way they do is because you are fighting a Judoka.

You can be a complete neophyte and make it really hard for a good Judoka to throw you if you just don't play by the rules...i.e. stall, which of course you get in trouble for in matches..that should tell you something right there about how throwing functions differently in real life chaos than in Judo matches.

This will IMO be closer to what you would actually face than a Judoka who plays the counter for counter game with you..which seems to suggest that the way to use throws in real life is set them up with strikes (again not covered anywhere in Judo randori..but it is in jujutsu), or let them function as purely finding opportunities given to you.You certainly can't run up to someone and drop-knee seionage them without setting it up, and combo throws are pretty predictive to rely on in the chaos of real life.

Again i'm not trying to bag on Judo, what it does it does fantastically well. If we are going to talk about "do throws work on the street" though..probably we should actually talk about how that would work, instead of just seeing Judo as a panacea because it involves live training.

As a disclaimer..i'm trying to stick to the subject here, people can and have used Judo successfully in plenty of real life situations, it CAN be used that way, but if the question is how can it be trained most effectively that way, I think it's probably reasonable to suggest you'd have to take it out of the strictly competitive Judo vs. Judo realm first.

Part of the reason I drone on about this is because my main training partner is a Jujutsu guy, we basically exchange stuff, he learns Karate, and then he teaches me some groundwork, throwing etc. and we work that. We have done a little playing too, it's very fun. So it's a subject I've thought about a decent amount recently, and I find it fascinating.

Edited by Zach_Zinn (06/26/11 02:39 AM)