Okay, I waited until I had time to read every post before putting in my 2 cents.....

I know this is an old thread, but it is still worth commenting on.

When Krav Maga was founded, it met a need. It answered the need of a small military force which until that time, was practicing KAPAP - basically stick fighting because the British Mandate prevented them from arming themselves. KAPAP evolved in Krav Maga and so on. The Kapap being taught today is not what was taught then....

It is true that Krav in the IDF is primarily a means of getting soldiers to fighting proficiency quickly and is also used to help condition them - in basic training. It is not necessarily true that all units do the "same" Krav Maga. KM is a principle based system. CKM does not, for the most part, fit into those principles and therefore is not really KM per se. It does have some good stuff in it, and it can be used to protect one self, but it is not nor has it ever been used to train any "units". Some spec ops guys attended a (maybe more than one) seminar to determine if it was usable, and determined that as for their units, it was not. Again, this does not mean it is worthless, only that is has successfully followed the path of many KM org's and used very effective marketing which may or may not all be true and which is difficult to verify and/or refute. On another note, KM has evolved. My instructor, Moshe Katz, is the highest ranked student of Itay Gil. Google Mr. Gil's name and you will find many references to his name, the most popular of which is his being the lead instructor to the guys on the Human Weapon episode. Prior to his television career (LOL) he served in the Paratrooper Recon, and later as a KM instructor to his unit. After his service he served in YAMAM and after 3 years spent the rest of his career as both an operator and lead tactics instructor. He currently trains, Duvdevan as a sr. instructor. He works with the Israeli Prison Service. He even trained the security detail for the Israeli President a few years back. You name it, if someone needs high speed training which works, they call Itay Gil - including, but not limited to, the teams wishing updated training after the massacre at Mumbai.

Yes, what we do is different than other Krav Maga orgs. Yes we have belts. Yes we want to see how people respond under pressure. Yes we expect them to attend class, train hard and prepare for the next level. However, Israeli Krav International focuses on the science of the fight in more than just how we word things. Our skills/techniques are based on using proper "bio-mechanically correct" [(a phrase first coined by Itay not Moni (Pino) Aizik)] movements which maximize gross motor skills instead of just saying it. Grabbing the muzzle of a gun with 1 hand and trying to redirect it is NOT gross motor skills! Trying to twist someone's arm inward and upward after using a 360 degree block and then "grabbing" it with just that one hand again is NOT gross motor movements. In the eternal words of Dan Inosanto "Knife disarms are incidental if NOT accidental"! We don't disarm a knife wielding attacker. We attack the attacker and sometimes we're lucky and get a bonus - a knife disarm. The goal however is not to take his knife, but to pummel him until the knife is less a threat!

So, has KM lost reputation? Well, with all the internal litigation, the ridiculous claims of lying multi-million dollar fakery, and even the legitimate claims of those who are still teaching exactly what Imi taught with little to no changes to match the modern understanding of combat science.... I'd have to say no. No it has not lost any reputation. It has however, in those circles, lost credibility. It's lost face, if you will. People who were fitness instructors but claiming special forces combat experience..... those who were map laminators claiming to have been YAMAM operators (lochem) and intel officers at the same time (which simply doesn't happen)...... those who talk about the charlatans who snuck in after Imi's death and have tried to take illegitimate titles as grand master this or that..... a student claiming all rights to KM for an entire continent and suing their instructor when he comes to their country and teaches without written consent...... it just goes on and on.

The bottom line.... do the research. Find people who are training high level persons 'right now' and check it out. Get materials from many sources. Don't look at the quality of the production, look at the quality of the application of KM principles and modern combat science. If it meets the scrutiny of those, then train it a while then ask people who do and some who do not know what's coming to "try and prevent my defense to this attack". Show them what you want but don't show all of them what you intend to do. Put on pads and try it full contact some too. Does it work even if the "bad guy" knows what's coming and tries to prevent it from working? Does it work if the "bad guy" doesn't know and is aggressive or skilled in another discipline? Answer all this for yourself. If it works, then it works. If it doesn't search elsewhere.

I get updates from Israel pretty regularly. Sometimes often, sometimes not.... it just depends on if students under Moshe and/or Itay are being injured or killed using a technique. They tried to stay ahead of the curve, but sometimes it's not possible or necessary. This is why what we do differs from ALL other orgs. Nearly all the stuff used by other orgs has failed in the field and has been replaced by our leaders. This isn't to say it never works, but if 1 soldier, prison guard, presidential executive protection agent, YAMAM Lochem, Duvdevan Operator, or civilian student gets hurt the skill he was using gets reviewed and revised or even replaced. I am always growing in Israeli Krav International.

Train Hard, Live Well, Be Safe!!

Edited by ArizonaKravMaga (11/30/09 04:14 PM)
"That is the most necessary and difficult thing in krav maga - that I must be so good that I don't have to kill" or in regard to punishing an attacker "Why do you want to break a dead man's bones?" Translated from Imi Lichtenfeld in Cleveland, OH 1984