Your not getting me......using an "english" dictionary to translate an "incan" term might just give you a LESS THAN ACCURATE translation........just something to consider as you compare and contrast why the "meanings" don't always add up.

"some have been told that Okinawan kata have been "combat tested and...that they have enabled succes on the battlefield"

A-I don't ANYBODY of any repute that would say something like that---Okinawan arts like many the chinese arts they are based upon were less "battlfield" and more "personal protection."

B-Its 2 DIFFERENT THINGS "combat teasted" and "battlefield" are not the same meaning...ones art could well be "comabt tested" and yet not be on a "battlefield."

Just depends on exactly how LITTERAL you want to be useing the term "battlefield.

"one might answer not very effective....large groups of armed men fought each other"

Again, your mixing your examples and NOBODY I know with any actual info thinks the UNARMED sections of the Okinawan karate are meant or designed to take on "large groups of armed men."
Whomever told you so is either ignorant or they think you are.

"okinawan kata have movements are diffent and distince from weapon movements"

Many don't, some do.......some can quite readily be used with a staff etc......so what?

I tried to explain before...but your not listening....a "battlefield" and "combat effective" are 2 RATHER DIFFERENT THINGS.

Most Okinawan karate---like most of their Chinese for-runners were more for personal protection than anything else......does not mean they lack "effectiveness" just that they don't seem to have been devloped with the idea of mass armies fighting it out, in mind.

There are a few a few exceptions of course which might indeed be closer to the "battlefield" defiantion you seem so hung up an.

I was taught that "karate" was a "last ditch" form of self defense for when you didn't have a weapon, couldn't get to something you could use as a weapon and couldn't run/get away.

Karate was pretty much the in the hands of nobles, government officals/operatives, rich merchents etc until pretty recently in its "life."
Karate was not really developed by unarmed peasents to fight off invading Samurai.

Edited by cxt (05/18/09 07:16 PM)
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.