No, sorry, go back a good few posts and you will find me saying to Neko what I repeat to you. "Real" is an absolute, not a subjective concept. Do you understand the concepts of "real" and "unreal"?

Okay, and what makes something 'real'? This might seem overly semantic, but the abstract concepts of religion are felt strongly enough by the believers to create effects in reality. In other words, to some God may be a 'fantasy', but even so the concept of God has had real effect on the world. I suggest you read William James' 'The Varities of Religious Experiance'. Here is a quote from that work that speaks both of 'absolutes' and 'abstractions' (or as you call it 'fantasy'):


This absolute determinability of our mind by abstractions is one of the cardinal facts in our human constitution. Polarizing and magnetizing us as they do, we turn towards them and from them, we seek them, hold them, hate them, bless them, just as if they were so many concrete beings. And beings they are, beings as real in the realm which they inhabit as the changing things of sense are in the realm of space.

Let me give you an example, also from that book. Paul of Tarsus was said to have a vision while walking down the road one day, of Christ. Now many people who consider themselves 'rationalists' dismiss this visionary experiance as just an epiliptic seizure. But, as James points out, it doesn't matter whether it was from epilipsy or not, because that is missing the point. The point is that it was real enough to Paul to create modern Christianity, which has an extremely influential (for better or worse) effect on the world ever since. As James points out, certainly what Paul felt is different from what most people who have an epiliptic seizure feel, because they don't generally tend to radically alter the shape of human history. So Paul's vision of Christ, in this sense, was as 'real' as anything else.

The same goes for believers in chi. When a believer in chi holds the concept to such esteem that it alters the course of his life, and the lives of others, then the concept/abstraction/fantasy DOES have power in reality, can be felt, and thus becomes real.


Chi is not real even if you or others think it is real.

I don't think chi is real. I do think the concept of chi is real, and that that concept has real world effect.

Of course, I can see how someone who deals in faulty 'absolutes' couldn't see this. Since you seem to like to announce yourself of a lover of science, I wonder how much you have read about quantum physics on the subject of absolutes? Here is succint statement as to why the notion of absolutes, beyond helping to measure things, is a faulty one:


The standard interpretation of quantum physics assumes that the quantum world is characterized by absolute indeterminism and that quantum systems exist objectively only when they are being measured or observed.

Barad, I would think someone as knowlegable in science as you seem to perceive yourself to be(what with your constant arrogant tone) would understand such a basic concept as this.

Good day.

"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."