Although I don't know about the truly amazing part, I've posted evidence that suggests that this a major body has conducted thorough research, controlling for the placebo effect, and found that there is something to acupuncture.

If I am wrong about that, please post a link to the study.

As mentioned in the WHO review controlling for placebo can be difficult. It has though been found in studies that have used sham acupuncture as a placebo that no significant difference exists between 'real and sham' accupuncture. My 2 previous links contained studies making this point. I can get the particular links if you could not see them.



Difference is that mainstream medicines have been shown to work even without placebo.

You've lost me here. If studies show that certain mainstream medicines are dependent on the placebo effect (such as anti-depressants) then how is what you've said accurate?

I too am no doctor! And I don't know about anti depressants. The difference is that if certain anti depressants are found not to be effective, this will be verified by research and either pulled or kept depending on results. I imagine there is research into this going on now. This is more of an example of things slipping through the net rather than being a general rule.
Also doctors may use the placebo effect to some extent, it was on the news over here about people going to the doctor with a cold and demanding antibiotics, which are ineffective against virus, and doctors giving them to patients.


I read it a lot of that site since you posted it. Some interesting information, some fairly common info, and some that I downright disagree with. Perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see anywhere where he addressed the W.H.O. study, but rather another specifically on back pain.

Appologise. I ment for you only to read the article on on the page linked which was specifically an overview of studies in to accupuncture. This was not in refference to WHO, but gave a good (IMO) discussion on the effectiveness of accupuncture. I'd be interested to know what you disagreed with in that particular article?


Would you gentlemen consider physical therapy and or psychotherapy methods of healing?

Yes. Or perhaps more accurately, methods to promote healing. I'm being overcautious as I'm expecting a 'Gotcha' reply Lol!!


What I mean is, what specifically is happening to the body that needles stuck at SPECIFIC MERIDIAN LINES create an endorphin response?

But Ames, Sham accupuncture has shown that subjects who undergo sham accupunture, i.e. where neddles were stuck in at so called non-meridian points showed the same response as those undergoing regular accupuncture. Surely this is damning evidence to those who belive the response is due to flow of ki in the meridians being linked to the benifits of accupunture.
Whats more, the effect has also been shown in cases where the subject only thought they'd had a needle put in them. Is this not massive evidence in support of placebo. Is this not evidence against the chi hypothesis?
Again links to these studies should be in the previous link provided.
Another problem is where are the meridians? Things need to get ever more inventive to support the chi hypothesis, when results can be explained through placebo.
"Its only pain, it wont hurt you"