Quote:

Nothing happens that needs undetectable energy flows to explain it. That is what I mean by superstitious: you want mysterious chi energy to be the answer whatever happens, in the absence of all or any evidence. The effects are all physical and/or psychological.




No, I don't. Again, rather than strawmaning my argument, why don't you actually point out where I "want mysterious chi energy" to be the source? Never have I said such a thing. My overall point here has been that 'chi', as it is used for healing practices, is now finding correlatives in Western medicine. Much like 'pranja' was translated into 'chi' in the past, and with it took on cultural symbolism that pranja didn't have. Same goes for the crossover from chi to ki in Japan. Now in the West, we are using our matrix through which to explain how these exercises, mind techniques, and modalities like acupuncture can benefit people. In the end, 'chi' is just a term used to explain the why of how this stuff works. Now we are using Western terms to explain it. But either way, was is interesting to me, and actually useful, more than 'debunking' "supersitous beliefs" like some Maoist bully, is that much of these things DO work. Whether it's from the 'placebo' effect, or vague references to endorphins somehow being triggered, or even more vague allusions to it being"psychological", doesn't really change the fact that so much of these practices do work as they were intended: to cure an ailment, be it of the mind, or body.

The fact that they do work also undermines your earlier statement that these people had total ignorance as to physiology or anatomy...they obviously knew something if you yourself have benefited from the use of acupuncture (given to you by a medical doctor).

Further, you have yet to actually explain how needles stuck into someones body actually triggers the endorphines, and how that creates a healing response. Or are you purposely keeping it 'mysterious.'

For that matter, this word 'mysterious' has been thrown about far too much in this thread as a negative. So often thing are mysterious to us due to igorance, not because the thing itself is intrinsically 'mysterious'. If I took a random person off the street and sat them in a chair in a University lecture hall where a graduate level seminar in chemistry was occuring, I dare say they would find that fairly 'mysterious'.

I await you scientific explanation as to what exactly occurs when the needles are poked into someones skin, and how the endorphins are acted upon by that.

You're constant willingness to put words in my mouth rather than speak to ANY part of the post, to me, underlines your inablility to contribute anything of substance to this thread beyond hurling rhetorical slurs that I am supersitous. However, you're inability to actually approach this topic in a non-personal way speaks only to your close mindedness regarding it. How very unscientific.


--Chris
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"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho