Brad wrote - Sorry but this is HS from beginning to end. You start from the position that chi is real, rather than a historical TCM explanation based on virtually total ignorance about physiology and anatomy, itself probably inherited from the ancient Greeks, who had similar beliefs about the balance of humors regulating health. Chi has been extensively investigated scientifically and found completely unproved, for which read non-existent.

As for strengthening your internal organs, what does that actually mean? Your liver or kidneys are physically stronger? Prove it. This is more pseudo-medical nonsense that you cannot substantiate. I also prefer my liver soft, not hard, as I am led to believe it works better this way, hardening being an indication of sclerosis. If by "organ strengthening" you mean "more efficient", then, again, prove it instead of making faith-based claims.

Reduced stress and stronger muscles come from most forms of exercise-kata offers nothing special in this sense and this hardly amounts to the "healing" or "balancing" (an imbalance in The Force maybe?) that you are so desperate to defend.

Kata has a lot of benefits but this "first grader", as you choose to call me, has been practicing kata for a quarter century without seeing any "healing" take place.

Contrary to your claims, it is not "all about belief", it is about not making supernatural and metaphysical claims that you cannot be back up. And getting offended when someone calls you on it. You must have some very gullible students...

456 - Interesting points of views similar to Creative but less open to the possibility of some one else reality being their own. Interesting that you brought up the Greeks I'll add because they believed themself suprerior warriors they where for that time. The power of mental suggestion is a powerful source it spurs and bond the MBS. Its use is not uncommon or magic. But just like magic if you don't train or understand it you see it as impossible or a fake or a mircle, it is just training of illusion. The different in stage magic and White and Black magic is one pays big bucks (if you got a gimmick) the other two will take you to hell just my O. I bring this up because I hear the power of belife is so powerful that if u believe in Black/White magic I hear it can harm you and if you don't it can't. My point is each person reality is based on their experience in life and for this subject what they have trained in. As I stated in the intelligent discussion with Creative that my purpose is to tell my view not prove to anyone not even my students something is fact or fiction. Each person is entitle to believe what they want some people can only handle their truth/fact. As with some of my former student I just presented the training they absorb what they felt was functionable, some wanted only fighting skills, others wanted to learn control and other wanted confidnece each found their own journey as is the way of the martial arts. Now maybe this is what happened to you, you were not expose to this training so you don't believe or it was there and you choice to disregrad it. Whatever the case you are entitled to your own belife and reality. But there is a study of Accupressure/Accupuncture and massage that are based on Chi/Ki, though you say its not been proven clinics are abound here and aboard. Professional athelets uses these services when other forms are slow or don't work, and get good results. Of course you can find tells of the opposite as in fatal Western genral purpose operations with 90%+ success rating. It all depends on what that individual's body and mind is ready for, is the link to this topic.

Back on the main topic some people are introduce to Sanchin and Ten sho as normal forms to practice as part of the set, others train these Kata set aside form the fighting forms as a method of internal development that breath is strength and life. Personally I don't see anything mysterious about this and you don't need any help to find this out, hold your breath until you get weak or faint. The function of Man is biological, spirit and mental each can work separately or together the bond is what makes the person that believes (think) he is stronger or One.

As a senior told me of his sons travel though life, The son stated that,"When he was in high school, he thought his Dad was the dumbest and out of touch person that he had ever met". Now at 30 something his son states that after going through all the mess he had being disobedient doing things his way, he resolved That the older he got the smartert his Dad seemed. My point is experience is the greatest teacher obviouly our journey in the Martial art is different though years in train or close. But like this dumb Father my students some are Sokes of thier own system come back and tell me the son's story.

Your path in the martial art seem vested continue it and post what you find on the way. I will too.

We could both go get Google videos to support our view but that wouldn't be base on our personal experiences and wouldn't prove anything if we are interesting in proving something which I'm not. But I will discuss my views and belief.

For now let us agree to disagree. You post your views and I'll post mines, In the end if you were my teacher or I yours, our choices would still be our own.

Stacy3 - Unlike most fighting forms the principle of Sanchin, Ten sho or Qi-gong can be done sitting, walking or standing still it is more a mental control of mind, body and spirit. Some times the fight is not an external opponent its self/internal, Stress Kills. This is modern sceince as well as anicent. As Brad so boldly stated could be HS or not find what works for you.

Edited by Neko456 (03/09/09 11:07 AM)