I also appreciate the input.

Creative wrote - I think you missed my point. What I was trying to say is that while personal acounts and individual occurances may be useful to demonstrate a point, they hold very little weight as evidence.

456 - Granted but we go back to the question 'if a bear farts in the wood, does anybody hear it"? Does mean it didn't happen. Evidence is needed when retracing an event what happen sometime is far different then the evidence now shows. Just like history, it depend on who is telling His story.

Creative wrote - That it has been done for centuries does not mean that it is right or good. Perhaps it is because for hundreds of years people simply had nothing better?
I think that the treatments you mentioned can help people and for some conditions may be a better option than drugs. But I feel their use is limited especially in more serious conditions/illnesses.

456 - I agree there are a lot of things done because of tradition or igornance. Usually when something better is found this stop my debate to this is the opposite something more Modren can't handle it so we go back to nature or basic and it works.

Creative wrote - Firstly, that doctors don't know everything doesn't mean that 'alternative' practices do. (Not that I think you were saying so).
I'm from the UK so have NHS so don't have the problem you mentioned. I'd hope that this isn't the case for the majority of American patients? Perhaps some other USAians could give their view?

Neko, is it fair to say you have a negative view of doctors/western medicine?

456 - No I don't have a negative view of Doctors no more then I have a negative view of any other trade or profession but I do know the nature of Man he has his weakness. And some times we becomes pawns in their gain to pay for that new Bimmer or Benze or divorce so they can have the young intern. Such is life but don't waste my time or life with a Doctors wants. There are bad Policemen, Doctors, Nurses, Martial artist and Dictators all coruppted by selfish wants.

Our own reality? Don't really understand what you mean there! I'm just trying to look at the facts. The thread was 'can kata have health/recovery benifits'. IMO Most certainly yes, but I don't think there is anything mysterious about those benifits, ala ki/chi, or that can't be described through modern thinking/science/western medicine.

456 - Our own reality is based on the facts gathered from the things we've experienced and believe as fact or works for us. This is the basic of how and why some people see things differently. I believe in herbal, massage/accupressure and body healing by touch I also believe in Chi/Ki and prayer there are somethings that facts and evidence don't explain and is why medical science don't have the answer to all illiness. And starting this through certain Kata training. So when someone experience healing or power outside the norm I don't question it as much as I do try to understand it. I have witness know of and have experience force that I can't reproduce under normal situation but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I may sound way out but really I'm middle of the road unlike some of my Senseis and other famous teachers I know of I don't believe in the benifit of the use magic Mushrooms, Snake oil wine, or Hashi induced medidation that causes enhance Chi developement like aura force fields, figures on the wall to move and tell secrets or Transculadental flight or Dimensional travel. So you see I am nearer to you then we are different. Like you I believe the evidnce shows that these jokers where just high.

My reality is not their's, by a mile or least by a joint.

Edited by Neko456 (03/06/09 01:57 PM)