Jude,

I admire your hope on this subject and in many ways I agree that tegumi was indeed a part of early karate practice,

the simple fact is that it was not transmitted, and the art transformed into karatedo - without wrestling.

This is supported by absolutly no solid lineage, no written or pictorial records at all showing wrestling proper.

Along with no Okinawan Masters demonstrating the art of Tegumi, that any of us, and any of the significantly more resourced historians and visitors to Okinawa have seen or indeed trained.

What does remain is a small ammount oral history/written legend referencing the art of tegumi and of course the absolutly obvious fact that it would have had a place in an effective martial art like karate.

I found this out a few years back and in line with my Seniors guidence decided to develop and practice tegumi as I understood it, I felt karatedo deserved that (and was inspired by McCarthy Sensei and Bill Hayes Sensei)

it works for me and has its place but im in no position to claim lineage, and of course I have no proof that it is how it was done many years ago,

outside of the fact it works and delivers basic stand up wrestling ability to link in the other techniques of the classical kata, something karatedo sorley lacks in relation to application potential.

for me this thread is done, I will keep one eye open and of course keep searching but to argue with people like Ed is pointless as their logic is correct on this matter, as far as I can see.

It's been a good thread, but for me the subject has now run it's course until solid evidence can be produced, and im almost convinced it would have by now if it exsisted.