Chris

'Although Uehara has previously denied kiko was in his art' Curious as to your source on this one?

Motobu ryu Udun di has no intrinsic-energy (ki) training. As Uehara explained it: ;Intrinsic energy is generally called kiko and many people are learning it these days. It is a big mistake to think that kiko can actually work. What I mean is that nobody can knock down an opponent without touching him. If somebody thinks he can beat me by kiko, I will accept his challenge any time. It may work if the opponent is your student because you teach him every day. However it will not work on a stranger"; (JAMA Vol5 No3 p.72 Article and interview by Richard Florence)

And

Uehara emphasised that the ki training of Motobu Ryu Kobujutsu is not the Chi Kung, that is Kiko, of Chinese Martial Arts, but is a unique Ki method more like the fluidity of Aiki. (William Durbin article) - I assume this came from Shian Toma

Chris wrote

The term just means energy exercise, so it must have been there given the purposes of some of kata's now incorporated in to Motobu Udun di by Seikichi Uehara

Anyway here is an interesting link on Kiko:
http://www.chikara.com.au/kiko1.htm


I assume that you may have meant that Seitoku Higa practised Kiko after training in Motobu Ryu Udun di?, the brackets did not make sense.

How do you know if it was practised by Seitoku Higa that it is not Seido? Do we know how the Kiko of Seikichi Uehara differed from that of Seitoku Higa


My experience is- Kiko and Chi kung mean yes to "exersise the energy". The article by Ryan I have a copy of from 10 years ago, that was, I believe originally featured in Steve Graystons Martial Arts plus, over here in the Uk. It is a classic example of putting "Chinese Theory" into a relatively simple method. The same is true of many modern shiatsu groups.

As you are aware there are many ways of practising Chi Kung from standing still to spontaneous movement and it is impossible not to be doing kiko/chi kung or whatever name when doing what I have titled the Odori te. Both this and the shiatsu/therapeutic bodywork have one main goal in mind (or intent) - to release negative energy blockages. One is with a partner the other generally without. (This process starts with potentially defusing a nasty situation all the way to dealing with those that "refuse to desist"

Seitoku Higa (according to an article by Rick Woodhams 1994 Traditional Karate) first learned Ki exersise from Kishimoto and was "celebrating his 60th" year of doing so. Interestingly enough I decided to spend some research time re going through two Seidokan pamphlets !977 and 1981. Two photos clearly show some dance like kiko with a partner (Uehara and a female student) that is remarkably similar in my opinion to some Seido exercises. These photos are 1976/7.
(Seido supposedly came about in the 80's)

Cho

Moving in on attacks was very disconcerting when I first began this study. (I had already practiced the blocking and countering for almost 14 years). Now having practised this for the same length of time and for the last 4 years I have practised no kata and soon will be able to answer Ed Morris (I believe) to the question "5 years no kata" Seikichi Uehara was clear for his students "to make new kata befitting a new era." Matsuo Kanenori Sakon "Just as Uehara has created some kata for the purposes of popularising his art I feel that kata are also necessary to this extent". And Mark Bishop was clear to me to make up ti kata if I felt it would help teach principles and techniques etc. But and this is a big but, this is advise to Senior practitioners and not beginners or intermediates looking not to go through the hard work that you are clearly being taught (from your descriptions). So as I have previously stated on another thread, myself and you seem to be saying the same "Kata is not the heart and soul of Udunti"

Warm regards
_________________________
Michael Powell