I like the discussion. There are some things that I have noticed. First off having a little bit of knowledge or a lot of knowledge in wrestling (freestyle or otherwise) meant very little as far as winning the first few UFCs was concerned. Ken Shamrock was a very skilled pancrase/shooto guy and he still got submitted by a much smaller and weaker GJJ guy. It wasn't until the wrestlers started cross training in submissions, specifically GJJ, that they had a chance to fight Royce to a stalemate.

So having wrestling as a background definitely is a plus, but a submission grappler it does not make. This is why the use of g-n-p is still a staple of the greco and freestyle cats. Before the wrestlers trained in striking they could "ground", but their "pound" looked haggard and awkward at best. No real form so diminished function. They finally perfected the oldest playground move in the book. I take that back. Until they figure out that their so-called hammerfists leave something to be desired and shows how much they really don't know about real punching and striking, they will be accomplished journeyman streetfighters at best.

All that aside whatever it is that you get out of karate, you probably would be better served to go and learn one of the combat sports before joining most dojo, if you want to learn basic functional fighting. Karate is a very lengthy process meant to retain students rather that impart real world fighting ability. Now I am speaking of the rule not the exception. I learned to fight fairly well after onnly 6 months of training in Shorinkan. I was already a good football player and basketballer, started in Judo at a very young age and began boxing when I was 10. I had fought in every school I had attended, due to the fact that being a military brat I had to prove my toughness over and over. ~Every 2 yrs. my pops was stationed somewhere different, so use your imagination. Always the outsider, at least at first.

BTW Oldman, I never would have pegged you as a control freak or someone that smiles in a dudes face then stabs your boy in the back. Like I always say, don't trust the Cheshire Cat types who base their lives on being nice in person, but who hate your arse when you leave the premises. I take back anything nice I've said about your style or who I thought you were. Let's just keep it real. BTW it's "TROOF", not "TROUF". Sorry if I have a habit of telling it in a frank manner. If you want patent, dull conversation from a lot of folks who wish they knew karate you ban someone like me. If you want some spice and alternate knowledge, you let guys like me speak the troof. What about the 1st Amendment Capt. America? Dowhatchalike...
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Verily and mayhaps, the morrow beckons, like watchtower beacons, and war does to weapons...