Quote: I didn't say that Sun Tzu WASN'T chinese. Of course he was. What I DID say was the the skills of information gathering and stealthful reconnoiter personnel have been around since the days of early china and Sun Tzu. Not sure what point you were trying to make there.
The point i was making was that chinese and japanese military development were completely seperate processes, so the fact that Chinese utilised espionage at an earlier stage than records of Japanese ninjutsu, does not offer any clear indication that it occurred in Japan in a parallel time line by default. The chinese were ahead of the game on many levels (gunpowder anyone?)Just because one culture does something in year 'X' doesnt mean that every other culture knows about it at the same time. when you understand my point, give yourself a cookie