yes I am a self protection instructor,

I must apologise for blowing steam of at you like that,

No need to apologise. Its just that you were getting uptight, we all do that from time to time, its just human nature.


how to escape a simple wrist pin/grap what ever when all you see from her is pure terror.

Every school teaches that type of technique.


So yes I have a vested interest, what ever you mean by that.

If I can stop just one woman having to experience the aftermath of rape let alone the act itself then I will. If teaching her how to how to feign compliance and passiveness in order to set the [censored] up for a preemptive strike is what it takes then fucken' hey I'll teach it. and I'll be proud that I did.

Its your conscience chum. What guarantee do you have that the knowledge will never be misused? After all as you say they have been under considerable stress and like training a guard dog once it has bitten and tasted fresh blood the first time, its a hell of a lot more likely to do so again and again. Why is this so? Well because it likes it and is rewarded for its behaviour, it feels good to take a perceived reward for taught behavioural patterns.


And please dont assume I'm just a smart arse kid i've done my 20 yr apprenticeship with TMA (and I'm talking true TMA not the mcdojo sport crap that passes themselves of as a Traditional Martial Art now a days. I've been paid to face 100's of violent people most of which I was able to deescalate and have them walk, some just had to be "convinced" and would not be persuaded otherwise.

I never did make that assumption, and its good that you are able to be that persuasive.


I think it is Honourable that you do not want to strike first and no one can tell you to do otherwise. What I found less honourable is that you imply that anyone who does preempt or who advocates preemption are some what lower then you, beneath you or are lowering themselves to that of the scum that we train to defend against.

Thank you for the positive compliment, no one forced you to do that it was completely voluntary and very decent of you. However I do take the view that those who willingly embrace the concept of pre-emption are in fact lowering themselves not to the level of the scum (scum bit we agree on) which we train against, but rather to a position somewhat lower than that. The reason for this stance is that the 'scum' know no better, we do, or at least we should.


Do not hit first is a lovely sentiment, sadly the empirical data would indicate it to be flawed. "he who hits first wins" isn't just a catchy phrase it's a truism that has been found true by the people who's material I have studied.

Thank you also for that, but I have always been of the opinion that in a SD situation the objective is to get away and not to win, winning implies a 'fight situation' not SD. If as you have said, you show escape from wrist grabs, bear hugs etc, there should be no need to teach pre-emptive strikes.

Good luck With it all

Many thanks.


Edited by Midnightcrawler (01/14/07 04:23 PM)
God only knows; Really.