I will only add a little to what should be 'post of the year' from Gavin.


I study PP's as anatomical sign posts as to how to access the body. I don't honestly believe that TCM has any place in the realms of real combat accept as an intellectual sideline to gain a deeper understanding of the human body.

I no longer study kyusho either. I did with the top people from DKI and DSI and came to the same conculsion as Gavin years ago. It is a fine intellectual pursuit and can drive you crazy.

Here is a snippit from an e-mail I sent Gavin sometime back...


You are starting a very long and interesting journey, you will study theory until your eyes bleed. Memorize jing-point, mu-points, shu-points, meridians, vessels, cycles all to end back up at the place where you started.

The Point is that it is fine to study this theory and all of its interactions but what you should be gathering from it are principles.


I believe the study of biomechanics, the energetics of movement, the physiological and pyschological performance of the human body under stress and the way in which all of these topics interact with each other is where our attention should be.

Without these things it is simply artsy-fartsy karate.

We all felt like we had found the holy-grail of martial arts when we were shown the effectiveness of pressure points.

When what we actually found was another piece of the puzzle to help us understand the above.


I'm affraid I think Kyusho (at least as it's practiced today) is a modern invention. I don't think the kata's contain secret advanced TCM applications either. I think the Chin Na/tuite of old represents the highest possible level of practical PP applications as is possible under limitations of the human body once it slips into combat mode.

Yes, and actual tuite is based on gross motor movement. Please reference taikyoku-sho. It is the simplest kata that is taught, but the contains the most effective tuite in the bunch.

I will give you that in a controlled situation hitting, rubbing, pressing points A,B,C following any one of the three TCM cycles can produce anything from a light daze to a momentary loss of conciousness.

That being said, once the adrenal-response has been activated these staged (whether static or moving) KOs WILL NOT WORK.

There are a few techniques that will work once the body's alarm reaction has been activated but they are based on the flinch response and are very gross motor movements.


This is simply not true. The foundations of TCM classics states that if there is an imbalance the body will be in a state of dis-ease. TCM is the foundation the knowledge that you use to apply these KO's. The language used to describe what you are doing is self evident also "overloading the persons neurological pathways". As Scott said earlier, overloading a circuit breaker weakens it. Every time a neuron is fired it'll experience wear and tear. To take it to a state of overload, common sense would dictate, it needs to be placed under stress. Increased stress means increased wear. I don't need a neurological study to figure that one out.

Also looking at it from a TCM point of view what about looking at the way the body addresses these energetic imbalances you are creating? How does the EV systems re-adress the balance? At an energetic level what effect are you having on the natural function of internal organs? Do you understand the underlying theory of impairing (even temporarily) the protective elements of Lung and Large Intestine? How do know what effects over stimulating the pericardium will have on a persons emotions?

Exactly, please read Hara Diagnosis: Relfections on the Sea and Extraordinary Vessels by Kiiko Matsumoto for a better understanding about what Gavin is talking about.


Russell Stutely actually as an open, as of yet unanswered, challange to have any of these Kyusho masters apply a TCM KO when he is trying to really knock them out using a good old fashioned KO.

One that I expect will remain unanswered. It is one thing to be able to apply these techniques to the drunk at the bar, the irate customer in a resturant or some loud-mouth redneck at the church picnic quite another to even execute them against a fully resistive opponent hell bent on smashing in your nut.
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.