Zach, that's the funny thing about logic, not finding something in an incomplete historical record does not prove something false. Now, if it was written there is no ground fighting in karate or kata, then that's one thing. But to state that since you have never seen it nor been taught it nor heard of it mentioned doesn't prove anything except maybe you should dig deeper.

No, the burden of proof is on you guys making the claim, as with anything else we are debating.

This is the problem some of you guys have got. You want others to run around, do research, come up with statements, tell you where it is, so you guys can do what?

Get annoyed?

Given the amount of information posted by guys who know there stuff just on this forum alone should give the information for someone to look further .

So what do some of you guys do who dont know?
Start messing up threads with childish statements .

What do the educators on this forum do?
The guys who know what they are doing?
They post stuff that leads to further research.
And you guys who dont know dont even see it?

Give me a break!! Get some research skills!! I have highlighted the points in case of missunderstanding.