bump

'Real' goju. The more I see, the more elusive it seems to get. Looking to understand a little bit about 'chin na', and I 'see' Chin na in Saifa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFAcPe8VPiA

There is another discussion on whether or not grappling is in karate; where to draw the line 'this is karate'. How about joint locks?