I agree that an element of shuri te is included with matsubayashi ryu, and the tomari te is not 'pure' as the matsubayashi system is presented with consistency throughought the whole system, (despite obvious kata from tomari te and shuri te), giving it its own flavour.

I think the 2 tomari te styles you mention are only avalaible on okinawa, possibly a few private students worldwide but I have never heard of any. they are detailed in Mark Bishops Okinawan Karate, secrets and methods book so they do exist.

Be interesting to hear from any tomari te styalists around ?

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Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com