Ok jude, first off, cut the bowing and 'we are all fellow MAists' routine. That only ever gets used by people in a passive-aggressive manner who try and appear open minded on a subject they are blatantly set in stone on.

Thanks for the advise but no thanks. Interesting about the statement of aggression part? Interesting but wrong.

Firstly, If i were pro steroid, I would take them. I do not, and have never done so.
I am however, pro personal choice, when the choice is based on full knowledge of both sides of a situation.

That would be like saying personal choice of using hard drugs. You live in a society. Steriods lead to problems.
Problems seen fit enough to make unlicenced sale of them illegal. For reasons.


you first cited cocaine as a mental stabiliser for steroid use. Now it is opiods. Cocaine is a competely different drug, from genus through to effect, to any opioid. Which is it? Constant symptoms have constant cures.

The street price on cocaine was/ is rock bottom. Herion is the worst drug anybody can use. So unless they are realy stupid( and the they do exist) most I am aware of use cocaine.


A poll of 227 men does not a clinical truth make. In the larger field of medicine, 'roid rage' is not yet considered a proven condition, and nor will it be any time soon. You see, anabolic steroids (a group of drugs that encompasses many many types) were never designed for human use, and as such, NO RECOGNISED CLINICAL TRIALS EXIST IN REGARDS TO THEIR EFFECTS ON HUMANS. All evidence in regards to the psychological issues is, at best circumstancial, and at worst, anecdotal. Not scientific empirical fact.

I see what I see. I dont realy need evidence to back up what I see. If it is available fine. Roid rage exists so does the other things connected with steriods. But I will look for data.

Even if that study of 227 men were spot on, this in no way is a wide enough, nor thorough enough study to confirm or refute anabolic steroid links with anything at all, good or bad.

I shall look for some.

Where do I get my observations from in regards to anabolic steroids? Experience. I have trained with, helped train, and socialised with hundreds of competetive athletes, and thousands of hobbyist private individuals in the lifting community over a professional period of a decade, and a personal period of 19 years. I submitted a full CV and checkable references to Mr Caille before accepting the job of moderator in the strength and Nutrition fora, because, along with self defence, these are the areas of the site that advice/info given can have a real impact on peoples lives. Its something i take seriously.

In that spirit, I say again, that I do not advocate or recommend anabolic steroid use. No one with under 5 years of consistent training has even scratched their potential, and so its completely ridiculous to start enhancing performance that is not yet fully developed in the first place.

What i am advocating, is the removal of moral highground in regards to a personal choice made by many, if not all involved at the highest level of competition, where health is not an issue, and where performance is everything to those involved. These people sacrifice more, work harder, hurt more, and achieve more, than anyone who sits in judgement of them.

Yeah? wrong. There are natural atheletes who work just as hard with out steriods.
Competition should be between human ability. Not who has the better roid use and given the side effects of roids they shouldnt be used.

If their performance and accomplishments is at the expense of their health, then that is a personal choice.

Personal choice is one thing. Using illegel drugs is another. The effects of a roid use on the public needs to be considered. One of the reasons certain states in America have taken the actions they have done.


Many people out there see Martial arts as dangerous and embodying nothing but negatives- glorification of violence, ego, the cultivation and focussing of aggression.
We who know better, can see this over simplified view as inherently wrong.


Ronnie Coleman's years in the gym, his spartan dedication to eating, his drive and motivation to succeed made that physique. The steroids are merely a secondary tool.

So why use them then. Think of it this way. If no one used roids and he did what he did he would be a the top of his chosen field?


Without the above, taking gear and sitting on the couch all day, he would have achieved nothing.

Doesnt justify there use.

Another point to consider if your 'clinical' trial proved correct, is that it paints a persuasive argument for removing steroid control from recreational drug dealers, bringing it out from the underground, and looking at organising some real trials and support systems for users. Then they wouldnt be surrounded by cocaine and opioids would they?

So why not just ban them totaly and let people be judged as a natural athelete? Why make them legal?

Roids are false and lead to problems. If no one used them then you would still be in work advising people.
So I cant see how that realy effects you.??