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#99845 - 11/23/04 11:00 AM Re: Most effective martial art for small females?
Anonymous
Unregistered


That is true, a smaller man does have more of a sense of being physically smaller than other people, and can have a better understanding of using a technique from a physically subordinate position but they do have a completely (speaking from an generally American-centric viewpoint) different socialization then women do.

Very valid point on the size issue, but I wasn't very clear in what I meant, which was a woman would have (generally) better insight into what a woman would need than a man because she understands all of the non-physical elements as well. Women just aren't brought up to think "If I get in a fight, I'll frickin' kill the guy". (At least for the most part. There are always exceptions.) [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

As far as a 2 week course in self-defense, while they can (and the better ones do) teach great concepts and techniques centered around self-defense, I don't feel that they adequately prepare a person for a self-defense situation that may occur 6 months or a year or 5 years after the course. Taking a golf lesson from Tiger Woods' coach for 2 weeks will not prepare you to golf a year later. You simply need to repeat the motions more frequently then that.

Ooh. It'd be cool if you could do a women's self-defense course annually, or semi-annually. Then you learn what you need to defend yourself, and get to do it regularly enough to not forget everything you learned.

And as far as a 115# woman not being able to defend herself w/ sport MA, an ex of mine (OK, so she weighed 120#) once fractured a guys femur w/ a back leg round kick that she learned while getting her BB in TKD. It was a bigger guy in her HS that wouldn't let her leave the bonfire until he got a kiss and had her in a bear hug against her wishes. She warned him to let her go, he got more frisky, and according to her actually said "what are you gonna do about it?", then she suggested he drop her w/ a hammerfist to the boys and threw the kick as she landed and then she ran. So, a smaller gal can be capable of hitting w/ enough power to stop a larger man, at least enough to let her vacate the situation.

Of course, she was an exceptional athlete all around and another example of "It's not the art it's the artist" so I'm not trying to say that every little lady will always stop every big mean man, but the possibility is always there.

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#99846 - 11/23/04 02:57 PM Re: Most effective martial art for small females?
Anonymous
Unregistered


You would think that there would be some consistency with all these responses, eh Suzy? Tis is why I said not to commit based on what you read on the internet.

Some things to think about though:

1. Joining a womens only class. Depends on your mindset and attitude. It is my opinion that those type of classes are either to get your feet wet or are designed as a way to make the training less threatening. If you need a lower intensity intro, fine. But how often might you face another femle threat on the street as opposed to a bigger and stronger male?

2. On choosing Aikido for Self Defense. Aikido is beautiful to watch. It is however, very much coordinated with cooperation in mind as far as the majority of the training, especially for the first few years.

3. On a Womens Self Defense course. It will likely give you some ideas of where to start. It will not likely be in depth or comprehensive due to the time limitations and the goals and attention span of the target audience.

4. Make up your own mind. I think I am right and Ed is wrong (as usual) but I am sure he feels the same way about me. This is a forum with a wide range of experience and opinions.

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#99847 - 11/23/04 03:34 PM Re: Most effective martial art for small females?
still wadowoman Offline
Improved beefier techno-prat

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 3420
Loc: Residence:UK- Heart:Md, USA
Draker,

I take your point, but you can't dismiss styles that were not designed for women.
There are so many variations in each style.

Some karate instuctors, for example, focus on competition techniques, some on the combat aspect and others on the traditions and philosophy. Some are more experienced/knoledgable than others and better equiped to help the students use their training in a realistic manner.

I know several wado instructors. None of us have exactly the same emphasis in our lessons.

Suzy,
Go visit/train in a few and make your own mind up.
Sharon

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#99848 - 11/23/04 07:58 PM Re: Most effective martial art for small females?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SifuSkyler:
Take marksmanship and gun safety then get a weapons permit, lol. I kid, I kid. I would honestly say Chin Na/Aikido or Wing Chun. Despite what Drakkar pointed out about the in-fighting, Wing Chun was actually originally designed by a Shaolin nun, to be used by a small female on a larger male opponent. Look up the story of Wing Chun (her name) in Chinese martial history. It's a pretty good tale.[/QUOTE]

Actually, the gun idea has merit. Check local ordnances and find out the legality of it in your area. Then get trained, it won't take years of study and practice. The gun is the "great equalizer" and is used for good purposes many many many times more often than bad. It's just another tool which can be used or abused.
In the mean time, learn to fight dirty as someone else suggested... It's always good to know that.

Dan

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#99849 - 11/23/04 09:11 PM Re: Most effective martial art for small females?
Anonymous
Unregistered


QUOTE:

"Find something that teaches you how to hurt the bastard and get away quickly. Thai boxing, wing chun, judo etc won't teach you how to do this."

I disagree with this. Wing Chun teaches specific strikes. i.e. trac. punches, eye stikes, knee strikes, groin strikes, etc.

We train to dismantle. We don't care about the opponet. Deeper training will teach how to break, or disable an opponet. Believe me, this is not what anyone wants, but if it comes down to it, I want to stop my attacker at all costs. This is life, not the movies. If I have to break an airway to get away from an attacker, I will. We learn direct hits to, again, dismantle.

I don't know if any of the responses are from law enforcement officials, but I do have two police officers in my class who have infact injured people due to fights. It's very unfortunate, but this is life. We need to protect ourselves at all costs.

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#99850 - 11/23/04 09:26 PM Re: Most effective martial art for small females?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Unfortunately, police officers are like everyone else. They train in all kinds of different things for their own different reasons. One reason why I don't bother mentioning how many I train. It is not a seal of approval.

No offense to bungle.

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#99851 - 11/24/04 02:25 AM Re: Most effective martial art for small females?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drakar:
Sifu, you are wrong. Please re-research Wing Chun.

Wing Chun ( the girl ) learned White Crane from Ng Mui ( also a girl ) when she was fifteen to defend herself against a bully who was trying to force her to marry him. She challenged the bully to a fight and won. Then she got married to Leung Bok Chau and taught him the Kung Fu she learned from Ng Mui. He then taught it to Leung Lan Kwai. The style may have been named after her but she certainly did not come up with the idea. Not to mention the outrageous claim that the Wing Chun style was developed specifically for smaller girls to defend themselves against bigger guys. Wing Chun is a variation of White Crane. She didn't really design anything...


Wing Chun can be made effective for any size/gender. But why put the extra effort and take the extra risk to make Wing Chun effective? Do you think that Miss Yim Wing Chun would have taken White Crane if Aikido was available? I doubt it!

[This message has been edited by Drakar (edited 11-22-2004).]
[/QUOTE]

What made you think that there were no throws / joint-locks / ground-work in White Crane?

No matter what style a male or female (big, medium or small) trains in, the most important aspect is still the ability to act / fight under life & death pressure. The phrase 'frozen with fear' means exactly what it says and it is borne out of real life-experience. Soldiers in mortal combat will truely understand it. The only time I've personally experienced this was way back in 1969 when racial riots erupted in my country. I slept fitfully with a gun in my hand and a cold 'freezing' feeling washed over you every time a noise was heard. All your training will be 'frozen' when you are all alone and in front of you is this menacing evil looking figure with a knife or machete in his tatooed hand. Men, out of sheer desperation and perhaps ego can still summon a presence of mind to put up a good fight. But a small female, even if well trained?

Lets assume that this well-trained female put up a fight in whatever style. Sooner or later she will have to poke him in the eye. It is alright to pretend to poke your sparring partner in the eye in the dojo. But how many female I wonder have the counter-intuitive courage to actually stick a finger into another human being's eye? I like to hear from anyone, male or female, who has done it.

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#99852 - 11/24/04 05:37 AM Re: Most effective martial art for small females?
still wadowoman Offline
Improved beefier techno-prat

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 3420
Loc: Residence:UK- Heart:Md, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ButterflyPalm:


Lets assume that this well-trained female put up a fight in whatever style. Sooner or later she will have to poke him in the eye.
[/QUOTE]

Why will she have to poke him in the eye?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ButterflyPalm:

It is alright to pretend to poke your sparring partner in the eye in the dojo. But how many female I wonder have the counter-intuitive courage to actually stick a finger into another human being's eye?
[/QUOTE]


Agreed, but being female is not the reason. Why do you think a female is any less capable of this than a male? Courage is not limited to gender and neither is ability.

The only difference between males and females is size and strength. Would you underestimate a small but well trained man in the same way?

Females are not a different species.
Sharon

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#99853 - 11/24/04 09:16 AM Re: Most effective martial art for small females?
John_C Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 572
[QUOTE]Originally posted by still wadowoman:
Why will she have to poke him in the eye?[/QUOTE]

She will because this is TEH STREET, and presumably she's not opted to kick him in the nads or punch his throat, the other parts of the holy trinity of street fighting.

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#99854 - 11/24/04 10:35 AM Re: Most effective martial art for small females?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SuzyQ:
Hi, I'm looking for some advice on what martial art to study. I am a small female - 5ft tall, about 115 lbs, so the chances that I will be bigger or stronger than anyone who might jump me are nil. I am wondering what kinds of martial arts would best offset this disadvantage, and be practical and applicable in the context of getting jumped on the street. Also, I know that martial arts take time and dedication to learn, but in the spirit of practicality, I'm looking or something that won't require years of training before I can defend myself successfully. Any suggestions? Thx![/QUOTE]
Hello SuzyQ, Please allow me to answer your question. A women or a man who is small in stature needs the same basic self-defense training as any one else. There will always be someone bigger and stronger if you look for them. The basic skills needed are aggression (the ability to become aggressive when aggression is needed, not necessarily living aggressively), Speed, simple basic and offensive (versus defensive)technique, and some strength training. Defensive training is used to avoid the initial blow or escape the initial grab if it is successful, after that it is all aggression on your part, attacking vulnerable areas of your attacker doesn't require much strength but the stronger you are the better you will be able to work. The basic techniques from boxing and muythai, open hand strikes and some type of grappling as in judo, wrestling or jiu-jitsu. I know this sounds like a lot but it isn't really. The basis are all you need, good solid basics constantly practiced. You can visit many schools one school at a time or try this site if I may suggest it. http://www.combat1.org. This is my site and I post monthly training technique for self-defense and exercise as well as a book that is free as a download. Actually the training page is free and changes each month. With a friend or a group of friends you can download and train free. I hope it helps. Please feel free to let me know.

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