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#98213 - 07/15/04 12:37 PM Scenario: What should Joe do?

Scenario: Joe accidentally cuts someone off in trafic and doesn't realize that the other driver followed him into a supermarket parking lot.

Joe gets out of his car, blissfully unaware of his stalker, and heads toward the supermarket when suddenly he hears a threatening voice, "hey a**hole!"

Joe keeps walking, faster now, not sure of what exactly is going on but he wants to get inside the store.

"I'm talking to you bi**" the guy says as he speeds up too.

Joe realizes that he may be attacked from behind so he stops and turns around in a neutral stance. The other guy is still walking towards him, about 20 feet away, and he begins explaining to Joe that he cut him off and was about to have his ass kicked for it, blah, blah, blah.

Joe appologizes but the guy keeps coming at him. Ten feet away, bigger than joe, and angry as hell. But the man has slowed down to a tough guy mosey. His fists are clenched and his jaw is tight. Joe is scared, he doesn't want to run because that would mean turning his back on this attacker. I want to stress that he is genuinely frightened by this man and his apparently out of control behavior.

As the man gets closer Joe warns him, "I said I was sorry, I'll talk to you about it if you want but that's close enough."

The man is only six or seven feet from Joe and he has to think quick but his mind is clouded by adrenaline. "Please sir," he says, "don't come any closer."

The man keeps coming. He's not rushing Joe, but he is coming right at him. Joe puts up one hand and asks the man to stop for the third dice.

As the man reaches Joe's kicking range Joe fires off a hard Muey Thai style kick to the attacker's thigh, stuns him momentarily and fires off two quick strikes to his face. The attacker is still concious, a bit stunned, probably very mad.

What should Joe do next? Should Joe have done this at all?

#98214 - 07/15/04 01:02 PM Re: Scenario: What should Joe do?
Telepath Offline

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 176
Loc: miami, Florida
first off since "joe" had no other choice yes he should have.....

since the thai kick did stunn this man and i will call from now on "Ron", it is clear that he can be hurt, just like every else...

if the two strikes to the face probally wouldhave broken this guys nose... when someone's nose breaks it loks bloody but mroe importantly the eyes start to water up and the person can't see.. joe needs to take advantage of this by #1(my choice) execute another thai kick to make the leg buckle then shift his stance to that leg and execute a side kick coming down on the knee to break it... if the attacker doesent permit this to happen smoothly then he must just react to what is heppning but the quickest way to bring someone like that down would be to keep on kicking that same leg.. make it buckle more and more.. pretty soon the pian will be so internse that he cannot hardly stand.. thats when joe goes for the sson as the leg is broken...joe needs to say some "appropriot words" to this man and maybe wiggle that broken leg a bit or step on it to make the words sink in.. after that he must leave quickly and go to another supermarket if he is that determined to get his milk [IMG][/IMG] or drive around a bit then go home.. making sure that he is not being followed anymore...

Basically what i would do

#98215 - 07/15/04 01:36 PM Re: Scenario: What should Joe do?
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Cool scenario...Joe needs to kick and punch harder so instead of being a little stunned he can't get up for a few minutes. Probably if the kick to the leg was done properly that would have been all he needed but I do like the double to the face too. [IMG][/IMG]

#98216 - 07/15/04 01:40 PM Re: Scenario: What should Joe do?
0goun Offline

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 130
Loc: Brooklyn, NY, USA
A similar incident happened to me on NYC subway. Eventually, the other passenger got up and cocked his right hand way over his his back shoulder. Meanwhile, I remained calm and placed my hands, palms together, in from of my chin(neutral position). It turns out, he was bluffing. He came close and tried to shove me w/o success. Eventually, a policeman arrived and removed both of us from the train, in order to keep the trains moving; it was during rush hour. The guy moved on. He seemed glad the police came.

Imagined what would have happenned if I had decked him. He was not the threat he projected to everyone else. Although, I was ready to act had he attacked me, I was not willing to strike first. Keep in mind, there were plenty of witnesses who told the cop, the other guy was the aggressor, but he still pull both of us off the train. Justice is not always clear cut.

To be honest with you, I do not think there is a right or wrong answer to these situations. You have to act according to how you perceive the threat, and you must do what is necessary to avoid injury to yourself.

#98217 - 07/15/04 01:48 PM Re: Scenario: What should Joe do?
the504mikey Offline

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
Well, it's a tough call and this is just my opinion, but one of the things I think Joe should have done is specifically state that he was not willing to fight. "Please sir, I'm not going to fight with you. I apologize for cutting you off, I just didn't see you." Also, some "fear of being hurt" type language just before the preemptive strike like "Please don't hurt me", while damaging to Joe's ego in the short term, can be a real life saver in the court room. It will also increase the chances that Joe's attacker will be relaxed when the attack happens, increasing Joe's chances for success.


#98218 - 07/15/04 02:43 PM Re: Scenario: What should Joe do?

Fighting on the subway. Ahh what fun. I once saw a pickpocket with his hand in a lady's purse. He noticed that I was staring at him, removed his hand and just stood there, deadpan, like it wasn't the first time. I was younger and stupider then, I kept staring at him, you know, I was being a tough guy. All of a sudden he said to me in a loud threatening voice, "you mutha****a, you got a f****** problem?" I got scared, real fast, but kept calm and just shook my head, "no problem," I said. The guy looked me up and down and then nodded. I took that to mean that it was all cool.
When I got off the train at the next stop my girlfriend--she had been standing two feet away from me the whole time--told me that as soon as the pickpocket raised his voice to me a guy who had been sitting down got up and stood behind me. Until the pickpocket nodded, then he turned and stood down. The train was packed so I didn't notice this, nor would it have seemed strange for someone to stand right behind me. Anyway, that could have been a nightmare, I'm glad it turned out the way it did.
Sorry I got off on that story, I really wanted to say that I like the technique of simultaneously putting the "Ron" off guard and illustrating for any possible witnesses that A) you are the one being attacked, B) you have no desire to fight, and C) gave "Ron" every opportunity not to fight.
The reason I stopped after the two punches and left Ron only stunned is that we all have various levels of training and at this time, while I am confident that I could deliver the described attack, I am not confident in my ability to deliver a sudden knockout, nor am I sure what I would do next. Although, running and calling the police comes to mind.

Edited for spelling.

[This message has been edited by neckbreaker (edited 07-15-2004).]

#98219 - 07/15/04 11:41 PM Re: Scenario: What should Joe do?

As far as I'm concerned Joe did everything right. He tried to avoid the fight, he tried to calm the aggressor, he apologized for cutting him off, he said STOP.

The guy didnít stop and we all KNOW that he was going to hit Joe, so Joe used reasonable force to put down the attacker and this is proven with him only stunning the attacker instead of breaking the mans legs or whatever.

I would of kept beating him until either security come (reccommended) or he is on the ground.

Anyone that mad and big and only "stunned" will probably attack you after you have turned your back and walking away because he would of recovered by then. cowards.

#98220 - 07/15/04 11:51 PM Re: Scenario: What should Joe do?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Three warnings is more than I give anyone but my tolerance runs thin these days. If they invade that personal bubble then its on. Joe did what was right. Id have went further and KO him then made a very hasty retreat home and sent the wife for the milk in the other car. The law is no longer on our side but every human being is obligated to protect themselves because the law wont. Many people die waiting on help from police or EMT's. Why leave it to chance? Even though he could have been bluffing he could have been deadly serious.

#98221 - 07/16/04 05:39 AM Re: Scenario: What should Joe do?

I live in england.. I duno if its different here. But he aint pressing charges. Its been one month already and have found that he wants to get revenge instead...

what do i do ?

#98222 - 07/16/04 08:09 AM Re: Scenario: What should Joe do?
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Andy2004:
I live in england.. I duno if its different here. But he aint pressing charges. Its been one month already and have found that he wants to get revenge instead...

what do i do ?

Andy, wrong forum.

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