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#98142 - 07/08/04 10:49 AM Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'd like to start a thread somewhat different. While I'm an avid martial artist with training in Aikido, Kempo and Tae Knon Do, I've also done some research on modern self defense systems. I've looked at what various "intellects, experts, hoodlums, and LEO's" have to say on the subject. I've read inteviews of victems, both those that survived without injury and those that didn't. I've looked at common threads and the way out there stuff. After many discussion with other individuals, and a few personal experinces I've come to a few conclusions about self defense. I'm 47 years old so while I don't claim to be an expert, I do claim some life experince and a little common sense.

First off, I've found that way too many people look at self defense as winning a fight, beating up the other guy. I feel this is a poor criteria. The main goal in self defense is survival. You want to be able to get up and go to work or school the next day. That's success, or winning.

Next I feel that there is scant mention of awareness and avoidence. This is not cowardace, this is simply smart. It certainly is not possible to avoid all would be troublemakers all the time. But if work at it just a little, you can avoid them most of the time. Being oblivious of your surroundings is another good way end up in a bad sitiation. While this seems like normal everyday common sense you might be surprised at the number of people who have no thought for thier own security as they go through thier daily routines.

Few people have a plan. Few people have predetermined that they are willing to do grave injury to another human being with explosive violence when they need to.

According to the Justice Department stats, here is a breakdown of reported assutled victems:

No resistance at all, complied with attacker: 25%
Non-violent resistance, tried to get away: 45%
Resisted with a weapon other than a gun: 40%
Resisted with a gun: 6%
Notice that a significant percentage of those that resist or simply try to get away get hurt. I think that is simply because they were unwilling/untrained on how to do enough damage so that they could escape. Just ask yourself if you are willing to take a pen and shove it two or three inches into the eye of another human being. If the answer is "no" then complince with an assailant will lessen your chances of being injured.


There is much more to the subject but I thought I'd start with this and see what kind of replies I get. I've been interested in martial arts all my life but I've come to belive that they are not the ultimate, end all to the issue of personal security. Self defense, in a manner that will assure your survival and will not send you to jail, has some very simply principles but the execution of those principles can get complex. This is a facinating topic for me and I'm always interested in other people experince and perspective.

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#98143 - 07/08/04 12:07 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
still wadowoman Offline
Improved beefier techno-prat

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 3420
Loc: Residence:UK- Heart:Md, USA
Hi Two Gun and welcome to these forums.

What a great first post!

I totally agree that self defence is not about winning a fight but about escaping unharmed (or relatively unharmed) and have said so often here.

I also agree about the awareness/avoidance issue. I feel it is a major component of effective self defence training.

You asked "Just ask yourself if you are willing to take a pen and shove it two or three inches into the eye of another human being." My answer would be absolutely yes, but only if I felt my life (or another's) was in peril. As a woman whose attacker, statistically speaking, is most likely to be a man, anything I do in self defence HAS to be immediate and violent to enable escape.

As this is an area of interest to you, I recommend you browse the other threads in this section. Be warned though, this forum has it's fair share of crackpots but there is a lot of useful information and ideas on this site. I'll leave you to judge which are which [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Welcome again
Sharon

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#98144 - 07/08/04 02:33 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
I'd like to echo what Sharon has said, it is refreshing to see that someone has at least begun to research this complex topic before posting. You are indeed welcome TwoGun.

Those are interesting statistics that you state, although it does not indicate the seriousness of the injury and within what circumstance the injury was sustained. In certain crimes compliance is usually a good option, especially robbery, other violent offences such as rape etc I'm not entirely convinced it is the best course of action. On the other hand, if what you are saying is if you don't know how to fight back, then don't, then I can begin to see some logic.

Situational awareness and avoidance is a paramount lesson and undertaking. This is why many self defence experts often refer to it as "self protection". Geoff Thompson and Peter Consterdine are two that would immeadiately spring to mind. There are, of course, countless others. This all then adds to the idea of "surviving" an attack, I personally prefer the term "escape", rather than battering someone in order to win.

I'm looking forward to more of your posts.

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#98145 - 07/08/04 04:36 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well thank you both for the warm welcome! While I don't have any desire to belittle anyone or any paticilar style, I do hope to challenge some conventional or traditional thinking about personal security.

I do wish that the stats I posted were somewhat more detailed but they are simply a summary of the 2001 stats from the Justice Departments Uniform crime report. I've not chased down anything more recent however.

I work at a small hospital in the midwest that has about 450 employees and about 90% of them are female. I've done a self defense class here for employees for the last few years and that has helped me gain some insight to the female perspective on the subject. I've come to strongly believe that there are major differences in how men and women should approach personal security these days. While there is a lot of overlap, there are substantial differences in the mindset and in the situations that men and women will find themselves in.

I always give them an assignment in thier class. They are to pretend that they are the mugger and I want them to find places where THEY would look for and attack a victim. It must be a place where they will have all the advantages and will not get likely get caught. This is a great exercise for anybody wanting to practice avoidence. Most of the participants voice a bit of surprise when they have been doing this for a week as they never really had thought about it from that angle.

My classes are generally an hour and a half long, twice a week for three weeks. During that time, if I can change thier perspective on personal security, if I can help them achieve proper mindset, and if I can get them to decide ahead of time that they are committed to not being a victim and having a plan, then I feel that I have been successful. While I also try to teach concepts more than techniques, I feel pretty limited with my time frame.

I've seen so called self defense classes where they go for six to eight hours in a single day and by the end of the session they are teaching knife defense. I belive that is a disservice to have anyone believe that they can be effective against a knife with an hour of training on the subject and so I concentrate on avoidence, awareness, and mindset.

There are numerous tools that anyone who is serious about personal security should have. They start with avoidenc and awareness and go all the way up through leathal force. You have to pick the proper tool for the job. If somebody calls you a name and shoves you, pulling out your trusty .45 is not the correct solution. On the other hand, if you are confronted by someone who is leathally armed or by a a number of potential attackers, then leathal force may be the proper reaction.

These days you have to be on very firm ground in the legal sense to use lethal force, but 36 states now have "shall issue" concealed carry laws and there are more people than ever who are carring a gun for personal defense. This is not for everybody but if you choose to legally carry, then you have additional responsibilities place upon you. Not the least of which is competent fireamrs training and having a firm understanding of local laws.

The states that have enacted these laws average a 24% lower violent crime rate than the states that don't have "shall issue". While I'm sure that there are other factors, armed law abiding citizens would appear to have a positive affect on detering crime.

I just bring that up because it adds another element, another piece to the puzzle so to speak. And as I said, I'm always interested in legetimate data concerning personal security.

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#98146 - 07/08/04 07:19 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Raven Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/03
Posts: 549
Loc: Sin City
Good first two posts twogun, and welcome to the forum. While it may seem that this has no relevancy here, it does, just VERY little:

Another factor that must be looked down into murder rates is the treatment. In other words, sometimes the reasons murder rates go down is the fact that hospitals/trauma centers may have gotten better at reaching victims, treating them and saving their lives, thus less people die while the crime rates actually have stayed the same.

Using this information, it is VERY easy to give misleading statements that in all technicalities(spelling?)IS true.

Sure murder rates have gone down mr.mayor, but what about the crime rates? Assualt, Vandalism etc. have gone up.

See what I mean? All I'm saying this is for two reasons, 1) to show how easily one can say statements that give a false sense of security, 2) to show that one must always look deeper into things and read between the lines.

So hope this helps some of you in the future.
Again welcome to the forum TwoGun [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Raven

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#98147 - 07/08/04 10:05 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Raven. You make a good point. In fact, several years ago the Justice Department commissioned to by done by Harvard I believe. The study was to determine the end results if you could suddenly wave a magic wand and make all handguns disappear.

Well the first thing they determined is that the survival rate of handgun assults was almost 80%, only slighly lower than it for assualt with edged weapons and ice picks. So what they determined is that if all the handguns dissapeared, you would have a drop in assualts, but the homicide rate would go up. That's because a determined killer would simply saw off the barrels of rifles and shotguns and the stocks and attack with them. They would also use vehicles, bombs and other potent weapons a lot more and you simply wouldn't survive those.

This was about nine or ten years ago when the study was done. While medical treatment has continued to improve, so had the technology for making bullets has also improved greatly so at this point I don't know how you compare the survival rate these days.

But there is no doubt that survival rate of attack victims has increased. But also be aware that according to Proffesor Gary Kleck, criminanolgist at the University of Florida at Miami, law abiding citizens use firearms to stop a crime about 2.5 million times a years. He started his research many years ago expecting to come up with a conclusive report showing that gun contol equated to crime control. However after years of in depth research he had no choice but conclude that guns in the hands of law abiding citizens lowers crime.

His two books are really boring reading however but the final findings have never been refuted by event the most ardent anti-gun activist.

Also note, that I didn't say that shall issue stated had lower homicide rates, I said they have lower violent crime rates which would include those failed attemtps at homicide.

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#98148 - 07/09/04 11:35 AM Re: Self Defense Concepts
the504mikey Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
You make some excellent points, TwoGun.

The cold hard truth is that by the time a criminal is selecting a victim for his crime, he has already chosen a location where he feels he can finish his business before the police (or other help) arrive. The very last thing the criminal has to decide is what his chances are going one on one with his chosen victim. In shall issue states, the potential for his victim to be armed is one more HUGE variable.

Criminals behind bars routinely admit in interviews to being much more afraid of the "victims" than police, particularly when it comes to things like breaking into houses.

At any rate, welcome to the forum. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#98149 - 07/09/04 01:47 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Mikey. While I don't mean to push a firearms issue, for many folks it is a viable and useful tool to have in your toolbox of self defense tricks. But a lot folks make the unfortunate mistake of thinking a firearm is the only thing they need. H2H, blunt, edged and chemical weapons all have a place and a serious student of personal protection should study the entire package.

In truth, violence only occures in a small percentage of altercations. The ability to de-escilate a situation by using key phrases and body language is a skill that will serve you far more often and usually better. But that doesn't allow you to slack off on your other training!

Some time ago the Justice Department put out a very interisting but simple statement. They said that 72% of all violent crime is committed by 6% of the criminals. So where is the lock and key?

[This message has been edited by TwoGun (edited 07-09-2004).]

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#98150 - 07/09/04 04:23 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
the504mikey Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
I agree that firearm ownership comes with a large supporting cast of skills and responsibilities. Unfortunately, most people who carry give precious little consideration (much less actual training) to how they would present that weapon under duress. Drawing and firing while someone is in the process of trying to cave in your skull at close range is problematic, and most people's concealed carry setup does not do much to help.

As for where the lock and key are, I think they are securely fastened to the cell doors of non-violent drug offenders thanks to tough mandatory sentencing "guidelines". Something is upside down when the murderers, rapists, and armed robbers are being parolled to make room for the latest "Conspiracy to purchase marijuana" bust. Don't misread that as in any way condoning drug abuse, I just think that we need to take a more holistic view of the prison space vs. crime landscape problem.

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#98151 - 07/09/04 04:51 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Raven Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/03
Posts: 549
Loc: Sin City
About the firearm issue...in the Martial Arts Talk forum there was a thread started by Jkogas on wether or not to use guns for self defense, anyways a lot of good information was posted.

I too posted some info on that thread, such as the bias the media has against guns, I won't get into that since Firearm control isn't the issue here, but to back you up on your statement, researchers found that guns are used 3-4 times more in defensive purposes than they are used in assualt.

I'm glad that finally someone who KNOWS their stuff has joined the forum, Twogun, you will find that on these forums a lot of mindless morons/wanna-be's on are the site, I seriously mean it, its a refreshing taste to have you along. Thanks twogun [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

P.S. Keep on this site for awhile and you'll why I'm happy smart people are coming.

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#98152 - 07/10/04 07:55 AM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Raven, if you have interest in a firearms site with a pretty darn knowlagble group, check out TAC, (The Armed Citizen). The address is http://thearmedcitizen.net

I used to frequent that place regularly and while there are a lot of run of the mill shooters, there are also so very informed and educated folks there as well. One gentleman was a firearms instructor who's name if Fred. I never found him to say anything he couldn't substantuate unless he claimed to be simply stating an opinion.

Carrying a firearm for self defense brings an entierly different dimension to self defense. Most states require you to make every effort to avoid any type of violence if you are aware that a letheal weapon is present. You must have a mindset that the gun is the LAST option, not the first.

There are numerous places around the country that have serious firearms training. Thunder Ranch down in Texas is considered by many to be the premier site. I understand that they are about to move up to Oregon.

Another place is Leathal Force Institute and of course there is GunSite. While there are other good places these three are considered the best of the best. But that doesn't mean you can't get good training somewhere else. Just be warend that like martial arts schools, there are good instructors and bad ones. One thing to avoid is an instructor that claims his way is the only way.

In traditional martial arts, there tends to be only one way, but in the serious world of armed self defense, you use what works for you. Always cheat, always win!

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#98153 - 07/10/04 02:42 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
The arguement for carrying a firearm for defence will rage for years. I whole heartedly agree that to do so does carry some exceptional responsibilites and nor should it be percieved as the first and only line available. Statistics always need to be balanced. I would need to see what the definition of "violent crime" for the study would be. It would also be interesting to compare these statistics agains the number of accidental deaths and suicides involving firearms.

I'll leave that bit there, for fear of perpetuating another firearms debate...

The other thing that you have mentioned Two is the the duration of your defence classes. I would also agree that to a complete novice an 8hr "workshop" may not be entirely suitable. For the MA it might be a consideration.

How long would you consider to be suitable for a self defence "course"? What would you expect to cover during this time?

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#98154 - 07/10/04 06:49 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Idealy I'd like to create an academy where you have to demonstrate proficency in various areas and under a wide gambit of scenarios. I don't really care if you learn to pass the test in two sessions or in ten. The standard would be high but would use a PASS/FAIL system. Most emphasis would be on de-escilation of potentialy violent situations, but then the H2H stuff would start with escapes, then go to grappling to include submission holds, (this will take some qualifying as I have defined success as escaping without serious injury)and then would progress into teaching a limited variety of strikes. Maybe six hand strikes and four or five kicks. There would be variations of course.

The reason for limiting the number of striking techniques is because it has been demonstrated on numerous occasions that the more possible selections a person has under stress the more likely they are to hesitate and get that deer in the headlight look to them. In self defense, he who hesitates is truly lost!

This is another reason why I like the concept approach. It's like teaching a kid math, you can try to simply teach them to memorize the steps, or you teach them the concept. When the formula changes, that changes the steps and they no longer work. A whole new learning process of memorizing steps must occuer. But a student who understands the concept, will most likely understand what step needs to be done next without going through an entire learning curve. This applies nicely to most people and self defense. It doesn't mean that you don't work on techniques however.

Okay so you have asked me what time it is and I'm trying to tell you how to make a watch. And in truth I still haven't really answered the question. It guess it would be different for different people. I look at self defense from the prospective of being the preptual student. There is no end, the learning simply continues. The more I have learned about martial arts and modern self defense and shooting, the more I have come to realize how much I DON'T know. There is no end, it is an ongoing process. So from my viewpoint I can't really say a set time frame.

My classes were usually attended by 12 to 20 women ranging in age from the late twenties to thier mid fifties. So thier abilities were pretty diverse and none of them had any prior training. Teaching females tend to require a little different approach. They have different concerns and worries that men may know intellectually but don't really understand. You have to address these fears without coming across as belittling thier concerns.

I can go on,( and on and on and on), but I believe that I'll stop right here. I'll just say that the next phase of my ideal academy would be edged, blunt, and chemical weapons and then you'd go on to firearms. Oddly enough, firearms are for the 1% of altercations but would require some of them most intense training.

If you are still interested in my rambling, I'll fill in more details.

[This message has been edited by TwoGun (edited 07-10-2004).]

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#98155 - 07/10/04 10:25 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Opps! One last thing. Judderman you mentioned that you'd like the info on what consitutes violent crime in the study. Here you go:

"RTC states have lower violent crime rates, on average: 24% lower total violent crime, 22% lower murder, 37% lower robbery, and 20% lower aggravated assualt".

These figures are from the 2002 Justice Department Uniform Crime Report. Also of interest is the work of John Lott and David Mustard of the University of Chicago.

"allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent crimes and it appears to produce no increase in accidental deaths. If those states which did not have Right to Carry concealed gun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately 1,570 murders; 4,177 rapes; and over 60,000 aggravated assaults would have been avoided yearly....The estimated annual gain from allowing concealed handguns is at least $6.214 billion...."

The best minds that Handgun Control Incorporated could hire have not been able to dispute these findings and they have been duplicated by numerous researches at various universities.

Hope it's not too much information.

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#98156 - 07/11/04 05:15 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


The elements of Awareness and Avoidance are frequently absent from most Martial Arts curriculums. I have found several reasons for this.

1. The Instructor is intellectually lazy. He or she doesn't want the responsibility of continuing their research past what their instructors spoon fed to them.

2. The Instructor assumes that the student already knows that stuff and will be both bored and distracted if valuable "rep" time is wasted on a discussion of such information.

3. The Instructor is ignorant or misinformed about said information and thus unqualified to teach it.

I find a lot of MA instructors fit #3.

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#98157 - 07/12/04 01:18 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Probably true. But then again, there is a difference between self defense or personal security, and martial arts training. While I'm a practicing martial artist, I cover a great deal of issues that simply are not martial arts oriented. A simple example choosing a parking spot and trying not to walk alone to and from your vehicle at night. Important to personal security but not really a martial arts subject.

This is just one reason to differentiate between martial arts training of any type and self defense training. The two are not mutually exclusive by any means but to think you are getting everything you need for self defense by enrolling into a martial arts school is a mistake.

In my experince however, many personal security concepts are shunned by ego driven martial artist who feel that they are so tough and bad they don't need to adhere to common sense.

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#98158 - 07/12/04 03:38 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


many personal security concepts are shunned by ego driven martial artist who feel that they are so tough and bad they don't need to adhere to common sense

I agree.

but to think you are getting everything you need for self defense by enrolling into a martial arts school is a mistake.

So true. I teach a BJJ class that consists mostly of Gi and No Gi sport grappling but I also teach a self defense curriculum that includes strategies for Awareness, Diffusion/ Deescalation, Weapons and Legal Consequences. On top of that I teach DT to LEO/CO.

I run into people all the time on the internet that assume because they have a Martial Arts background that they are qualified to comprehensively teach Self Defense or Police Tactics. It's a difficult pill to swallow that they might not be.

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#98159 - 07/12/04 09:51 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


You are so right. I've got a friend I've know since high school and martial arts are where we started our friendship. We both agree that when we were much younger we probably fell into that class but as we grew a little more worldy (and went to a war)our viewpoint has changed dramaticly.

Unfortunatly far too many folks lack your perspective. I'm working out at a TKD club right now as there is little choice in the very small town I live in. Also my two daughters, ages 17 and 14 are training as well and for the most part I feel they simply lack the life experince to teach too much too just yet. So the "sport" aspect is okay for the moment but I make sure that they are learning avoidence and awareness. Both my girls have some skill and have qualified to go to the national tournament in Atlanta this year. But my oldest already understands that what she is doing is playing a game. Lately she has been asking more and more to learn "street" techniques. As she will be going off to collage soon I'll be working with her on that over the next year or so.

She is already an acompliched marksman with pistol and rifle. In fact, at a long range match last year she beat all but one of the police and DCI snipers. (I had to give them a little grief about that!)

Still her skills don't really qualify her for defense with a firearm. That is another area she wants to have proficency in.

I guess my point is a club or shcool that emphasis scoring points doesn't automaticlally meant that it's students can't learn some decent self defense along with it.

Can I ask what area of the country you life in Fletch?

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#98160 - 07/13/04 01:29 AM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am in South Florida.

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#98161 - 07/13/04 07:44 AM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


A long ways from me. I'm in South Dakota! Not exactly a hot bed for this subject as the crime rate in this state is exceedeling low.


But I'm originally from Dallas and there it was an entirely different thing. But here last year we had only 7 homicides for the entire year and I believe that 4 of those were domestic in nature. I know many people here who don't even take thier car keys out of thier ignition, let alone lock thier car. (I feel like I'm in the Twilite Zone)

But due to the limited shopping and such a lot of people travel here and many become apprehensive when going to "the big city" so I get request for my self defense classes once or twice a year.

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#98162 - 07/25/04 01:25 AM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Getting back to Awareness and Avoidance, an excellent book on the topic is The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker.

For an aggressive mindset and surival, Strong On Defense by Sanford Strong is terrific.

DeBecker's book is usually in stock at bookstores. Strong's book may be a little more difficult unless you use something like Amazon.com.

While training in realistic self-defense is certainly good to know, with excellent awareness skills the chances of you ever needing them are greatly diminished, and that's the ultimate form of self-defense - not being there when trouble happens.

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#98163 - 07/25/04 08:49 AM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've not read either one of those, so thanks for tip. Bookstores are pretty scarce where I live so I'll have to search on line for them.

Proabaly the most difficult topic to find good matieral on is art of de-escelating a potentialy violent situation. For some reason this paticular skill seldom finds its way into self defense classes and you are pretty much dependent on what ever phycatrist (spelling?) come up with. While I'm sure they have some good stuff, I'm also pretty sure that very few of them have any real world experince.

Hmmm... A personal security guru/shrink! That's what we need!

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#98164 - 07/25/04 09:39 AM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Although I appreciate your post, using stats is a mistake when coming up with a "plan" for self defense.
First they are national averages not city stats where huston NYC and Washington DC will look quite different. Also the mindset of compliance...what civilision its laws and morals want you to be..is no longer a viable solution..hence the compliant passengers on the 9-11 planes. Or any hostage situation...compliance is the first step towards the Helsinky syndrome.
I agree that most martials arts are technique driven with little regard to teaching mindset advoidance ect.
In all honesty it becomes a personal choice to what a person does when confronted with an aggressor. I personal, although trained for the extreeme...do seek the safest way out first...but if that is impossible I am glad that I have training to end the conflict as quick as possible.
Self defense is not about ranging...boxing type techniques..most of all martial arts are based upon...sport...but it is about pure aggression...knowing where to strike someone ..not just throwing punches...and the ability to take someone out of the equation fast...which limits your exposure time to getting hurt. Unfortunately..due to societal mores (sp) and personal belives most people do not have the mindset to do what they have to when attacked...hurt the attacker. So the stat showing victims who did not resist were less injured is squed (sp). Most victims who do not resist violent crimes are dead. And most of those who do resist are injured...with superfictial wounds...but are alive to tell about it.
We do not live in a society where the police are expected to protect us...or where some crack head who wants your money really does not want to hurt you....BS the criminal mindset is more ruthless today...going to jail is not an option...dead man tell no tails....
You have the responsiblitiy to protect yourself and your family...no one else is going to do this for you...so learn how to do it right...which includes having the right mindset...being physicaly in shape...and training for your specific need.
Selfdefense or better self protection is not a martial art...there is no place for budo...there is no time for zen...just take the guy out and go home....Martial arts are for those who would like to study historical techniques and all that zen budo stuff...learning how to protect yourself does not take 8 years and doesn't require a black belt. Ed

[This message has been edited by Ed Glasheen (edited 07-25-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Ed Glasheen (edited 07-25-2004).]

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#98165 - 07/25/04 09:48 AM Re: Self Defense Concepts
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
If I had to recommend some books it would have to be:
a) Most stuff by Geoff Thompson (although he has corned the market in writing several books from a few!) ~ excellent work looking at the pre/in/post fight stuff, how to avoid fights in the first place and how to deal with them if you can't evoid them.

b) Verbal Judo by George Thompson (no relation) ~ excellent into the worl of verbal confrontation. Lots of do's don'ts and stories to highlight them. Probably aimed more towardss the professional, but relatively easy to transfer.

c) Streetwise by Peter Consterdine ~ currently reading. I'll let you know.

A&C used to be professional bouncers/bodygaurds and often do consultancy work with the Police and Prison Service.

B served with the LAPD for a number of years.

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#98166 - 07/25/04 01:07 PM Re: Self Defense Concepts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Great points Ed. The stats are just raw data, but still useful as a basis of study. My point on use of the stats is that unless you have the mindset that allows you to put aside the social barriers that we are indoctrinated with and do whatever damage is necessary to another human being in order to survive the encounter, your best response if you are assaulted might be compliance.

In today's society we are constantly being told that it is more virtuous to be a victim of a crime than it is to stand up and defend yourself. Far too many people have bought into that. I don't understand that myself but it's there. Not in huge numbers but a surprising percentage of the population seems to have bought into this idea. It also is kind of a regional and cultural thing.

Some people simply don't have what it takes to act savagely and violently, even when they are justified in doing so. Other will do what ever they have to. I feel it's important that a person commits one way or the other. I think that a "half hearted" attempt at self defense is probably worse than no attempt. Even if you have training.

That's the only predtermined type of plan I'm talking about. Committ to fight with every thing you've got in order to survive, or committ to complinace if you cannot committ that. That doesn't mean that you have to react in every situation, but when you DO act, you have to be committed.

Judderman, those might also be good reading. I think I've looked through the Verbal Judo once or twice but never fully read it. Thanks for the tips.

[This message has been edited by TwoGun (edited 07-25-2004).]

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