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#97578 - 05/08/05 06:45 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: Fletch1]
Conad Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/07/05
Posts: 11
Ed, you would be getting military CQC training from the guys who developed it and still get invited to instruct at JFK SWC.

Fletch those things were demo'd because of the inhierant danger involved. For that reason it's only done by real operators. I am glad this board has people that have been there and done that.

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#97579 - 05/08/05 09:09 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: Conad]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
I am familiar with JFKSWCS. SFAS, SFQC, SERE, etc. Basic SF prior to moving on to Group.

Just because someone is contracted to teach there is not an exclusive endorsement of product or information. The military has funds available to bring instructors from the private sector and can (and often does)fall into the same marketing traps that civilian police agencies do.

Not terribly comforting to hear that the only people dumb enough to train disarms with live ammo are the ones classified as "Operators". With the training safety issues I am aware of at JFKSWCS, I seriously question this practice and/or the origin of this report.
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#97580 - 05/08/05 10:25 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: Fletch1]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I agree with Fletch.

Live ammo drills?! Have you lost your MF mind?

While I do not have that much firearm training, I was shown to basically control the weapon to one side of the opponent's centerline, while moving your body to the other side if possible.

Thankfully, I have never had to use any of it for real.

Hopefully it will stay that way.
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#97581 - 05/09/05 02:32 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: Fletch1]
Conad Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/07/05
Posts: 11
Since you are in SF Group Fletch, I will send you a reply out of thread.

A demo is not the same as training. This is more of a once a year event.

Hell I was uncomfortable doing it with real guns at all. Then it was pointed out that, that it was that uncomfortable feeling that needed to be trained out of. Made more since after actually doing it.

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#97582 - 05/09/05 04:03 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: Conad]
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
So conrad, just because curiosity kills the cat, who are you with?
Ed
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#97583 - 05/09/05 05:37 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: Ed Glasheen]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Never said I was with Group. I was with JFKSWCS for a while and I have had Group personnel train with me.

JFKSWCS is rather anal about safety in training (as they should be). I find it hard to believe they would allow any such activities as you list to be conducted by "Operators".

No SOCOM or any other commander is going to risk their careers ptting their names on such reckless insanity.
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#97584 - 05/09/05 06:57 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: Fletch1]
Conad Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/07/05
Posts: 11
Quote:

Basic SF prior to moving on to Group.





Sorry fletch, I misunderstood this line then.

Ed, I am retired US Army. If you meant the CQC class, we are a private group thats gets together every month. The group has a nice mix of military, martial artits, and LE.

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#97585 - 05/09/05 09:40 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: Conad]
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
"private group thats gets together "
Thank you I do not need to know anything else. Good day.
Ed

PS I have been to live fire exercises but they were not as conad has discribed.


Edited by Ed Glasheen (05/09/05 10:21 PM)
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#97586 - 05/15/05 04:27 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: Conad]
Nevermiss Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/31/04
Posts: 14
His aim will be erratic? Since when do you need good aim to hit a grown man at point blank range for being stupid enough to reach for your gun? Try it with a paintball gun, you'll get hit every time. The only way you could disarm a man and not get shot is if he's really stupid and turns his head or gets really close and semi-distracted. An "attacker" is almost as scared as you are, he's not going to trust being 4 inches from you, he's most likely going to be four or five feet back. In which case you'd have a lot of ground to cover before even making contact. And you're right about the controlled settings. But if you're scared, already have your gun out, paying attention, and a guy reaches for you, doesn't common sense tell you it'll take less time to squeeze off a quick shot than to take a step or two, grab the gun, aim the gun away from your self, and then do some move that only works for Jackie Chan?

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#97587 - 05/15/05 04:35 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: Nevermiss]
Nevermiss Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/31/04
Posts: 14
I also had to say this: Live ammo for a gun disarm demo...are you retarded? Somebody is retarded to even think of that, either you, or your trainer. Well you both must be, him for allowing somebody to point a gun with live ammo at him, and you're retarded for following up with somebody retarded enough to let somebody aim a gun at him. Keep this stuff simple guys, martial arts is OBSOLETE when it comes to a gun. If you seriously worry about your safety, get a legal carry permit and have a police officer teach you how to shoot and how to draw your weapon quickly. You can still use your martial arts on some dummy you'd rather not shoot, but if I man has a gun or knife don't play Jackie Chan, this is real life, and in real life life can end. If a man's trying to kill you, end his first, call the cops, go home, and call it a day.

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