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#97588 - 02/01/08 07:01 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: JKogas]
Mr_Davies_VA Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 6
Loc: VA
I don't agree with you John. I train and instruct firearm disarms. Disarms are possible if you train consistently and maintain an offensive mindset. If you disarm as a reflex, then yes, chances are your opponent is going to turn your head into a canoe. But if you take the initiative and disarm offensively, you have a good chance. First you should act submissively by avoiding eye contact and making a statement like "okay, take whatever you want" or "why God, why are you doing this?". The purpose of this is to get the opponent to lower thier guard and focus on what you are saying, changing thier brain function from active (fast) to reactive (slow). If you execute a direct and aggressive disarm (more Krav than Aikido) in mid sentence you should be able to clear the line of fire before the weapon discharges. I use loaded airsoft pistols as re-enforcement tools. Something about an 8mm pellet to the forehead encourages students to take the technique seriously and assume an aggressive posture. I've compiled data from the justice department and it showed that people are most likely to become victims of simple or aggrivated assault and have a low chance of getting shot, so I would listen to John and hand over the watch and wallet. But if you get that "I'm going to die" feeling, then I would go for it. On a related note, knives are a different story. If you run a scenario where the attacker is really trying to plant the blade, you'll probably find out that the situation usually ends bad (a red sharpe is a good tool to check). If anyone has some tips on dealing with blades (outside of beating feet) please reply.
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#97589 - 02/01/08 07:14 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: Mr_Davies_VA]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Thanks Mr. Davies...

For responding to something I wrote nearly four years ago.

After considering it a little further, I don't really mind talking about this but, my opinion hasn't changed in all that time -- even after seeing several Bourne Identity movies.


-John

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#97590 - 02/02/08 08:24 AM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: JKogas]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Concerning training with live ammo,which was mentioned as I skimmed the post,Iv know that people seriouse about it and good do train with live ammo in the sense that the gun could go off while you have it in your hand and are attempting controll,if you get that far of course.This can be shocking and loud and maybe hurt your hand depending on the gun or where you grab it.I dont know much about guns but mechanisms move when its fired.
So they train and hold the gun while someone else fires to see what its like.This is a part of good gun disarm training as far as I know.

Knife tips?

The stabber rarely shows and the shower rarely stabs.

Thats the golden motto that iv heard from people in the know.
If you were being fully aware and not in a stupid situation you had put yourself in then its plain bad luck and you dont stand that much of a chance.
And really its a case of damage limitation and getting away.
Getting away first obviously.
If not possible, equalise by getting weapon yourself to help escape.
If not possible damage limitation and protect your vital areas.
Turn your palms to face you with your forearms vertical and cover vital areas and take it there rather than anywhere else if you are going to take something.
Not passively of course ,in the process of escaping or attacking back just to survive if its an only option.
I think its a good idea to mentaly accept its going to be violent and you will likely get cut.
Also it depends on the knife as to what they can do.Slash or stab etc.If you have time and composure to actualy take note of that.
Now I am no expert and that might get torn apart as weapon defence is a bit of an iffy area but thats some of the stuff iv come across from those that know.
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#97591 - 02/10/08 12:22 AM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: matxtx]
animematt Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 41
Generally, from what I have learned from police and martial arts people... If you are very close, a many with the knife has a bit of an advantage, cause it takes time to aim and pull the trigger. Add human reaction time into this too.
Keep in mind that you will generally be surprised by an attacker too.

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#97592 - 02/10/08 10:32 AM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: animematt]
Th0r Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 7
Loc: Guess? The UK? Oh Yes!
@ Animematt

You are right. When it comes to close quarters fighting involving a gun and by close quarters I mean right up close to your attacker [15-30cm away], you will have a slight advantage with a knife.

The advantage is only slight and when you are extremely close to the guy with the gun...
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#97593 - 02/10/08 11:00 AM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: Th0r]
animematt Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 41
I have seen a better advantage for a knife wielder when he was over 7 feet away. This was also with the gun drawn and at low ready. The best way to defend against a knife with a gun is to shoot before he really starts attacking cause any normal person can close a 10 foot gap between people rather quickly.

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#97594 - 02/10/08 09:03 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: animematt]
brocksampson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 112
Loc: Savannah, GA
And then go to jail.
Remember, in the real world, when you shoot someone who has not attacked you, you've just become the BG. Just a reality check.
As far as the gun disarms mentioned above (and several years back) they CAN work but it's lower odds stuff than i like to usually train. In other words, they are too dangerous and require the correct setup from the attacker. Lots of LE agencies cover this "technique" to some degree in combatives(that's where I first saw them). Statistically, people who have run away the instant the gun comes out, have much higher survival odds. LE agents are not usually afforded this option.


Edited by brocksampson (02/10/08 09:06 PM)
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The more I learn, the more everything is the same.

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#97595 - 02/10/08 10:14 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: brocksampson]
animematt Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 41
If someone is threatening your life, most decent places allow you to defend yourself.... So if someone draws a knife on me, it is perfectly legal for me to shoot him dead.

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#97596 - 02/11/08 02:59 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: animematt]
Vennificus Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 206
Loc: The frozen realms of Kah-Nah-D...
If someone has a knife and you have a gun,
you just walk away with your gun pointing at them, If they lunge, you shoot.
the judges usually agree, the guy with the gun has the upper hand.
_________________________
Livestrong Johnnyboxcutter!!

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#97597 - 03/04/08 06:26 PM Re: Gun Disarm; Pistol Front [Re: animematt]
janxspirit Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 132
Quote:

If someone is threatening your life, most decent places allow you to defend yourself.... So if someone draws a knife on me, it is perfectly legal for me to shoot him dead.




Good luck in court.
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