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#97159 - 05/01/04 12:12 AM Will punching in the throat kill someone?
stephen4785 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 2
Can you kill someone by punching them in the throat and what are the odds that would happen.What are the affects when you punch someone in the throat.i dont know alot about punching in the throat but Ive had un-educated people tell me you shouldnt punch someone in the throat unless you domnt mind killing them.

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#97160 - 05/01/04 12:28 AM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
It is possible to kill someone by striking the throat. It is possible to cause significant damage to the vocal chords, severe structural damage or swelling that causes the throat to constrict-leading to death.
Due to variations in anatomical strengths, disease process, etc. between individuals it is difficult to tell how much force is needed to cause significant damage or death. It also depends where you strike.

To sum up-if you want to reduce the risk of death or serious injury,do not strike the throat.

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#97161 - 05/01/04 09:00 AM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Who really knows though? If you strike anyone ANYWHERE hard enough it'll kill them. Perhaps you can generate the power to do this with a fist. That would take a lot of things falling in place, such as; your opponent being a complete tomato can, your opponent not knowing enough to keep good posture and defensive structure and, your opponent not doing anything to attack you in return (as you'll have to be fairly lucky to hit a shot in someone's throat when they are throwing back at you).

In short, it's not the easiest thing in the world to do. Not that it can't happen, only that it rarely does.


-John

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#97162 - 05/01/04 10:41 AM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
I hesitate to answer that question but yes you can kill someone with a strike to the throat. With enough forse you can collapse the throat/wind pipe. It's one of those life and death self defense decisions. Why do you ask?

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#97163 - 05/02/04 06:14 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Raven Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/03
Posts: 549
Loc: Sin City
If you punch someone in the throat it doesn't mean you'll kill them, like nekogami said, to many variables. Now what CAN happen is you punch them in the throat, and what happens to them is their trachea (windpipe) collapses.
In order to heal itself the trachea inflammates (swells) if it swells to much, you basically suffocate. I've seen people get hit in the throat, and luckily they didn't die, but they had just the funnest time trying to breathe, one of them I think actually went to the hospital just to make sure that he was ok.(in the first incident they weren't striking full power, just a freak accident with an elbow strike missing and just landing right in the throat area, again they weren't hitting full force, so this might be a reason why he didn't need medical attention.)
So to play it safe, avoid throat punches.
If it was a matter of life and death for me, I wouldn't hesitate punching or finger jabbing the throat. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#97164 - 05/02/04 06:41 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 302
Loc: Munich
I would not try experimenting with this.

I caught someone in the front right side of the neck with a snap punch in a karate tournament some years ago. even though it was really not much more than a 'love tap' the guy dropped like a sack of s&*t. He got up moments later the point is it was not a particularly hard shot, I think a really hard shot in the neck (front & forward sides & behind) are likely to cause major damage.

Be careful
Jim


[This message has been edited by Jim (edited 05-02-2004).]

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#97165 - 05/03/04 12:21 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
WADO Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 900
Loc: denver co usa
Never having killed someone I am not qualified to answer, but I saw a guy get hit in the throat with a softball and if a doctor had not cut his throat open and put a tube in right away he would have died. I saw a guy get kicked in the throat in the sabaki and walk out of the ring. So I think it must be possible.

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#97166 - 05/03/04 10:52 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Raven Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/03
Posts: 549
Loc: Sin City
Yeah about the doctor putting a tube in his throat.... it really wasn't in his throat, but this goes along with what I was saying, when the trachea collapses you can't breathe so what they have to do is cut a hole just under your trachea (or the place under where the trachea is inflammating) and then put a tube in there and walla, you can breathe again.

[This message has been edited by Raven (edited 05-03-2004).]

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#97167 - 05/09/04 03:57 AM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Anonymous
Unregistered


It would take a considerable ammount of force to kill someone just by striking the throat...
On the other hand, there are some vital points in this area that can kill with a little less than full force.
Moderate force at the side of the throat (the corotid sinus in particular) is all it takes to deliver a knock out while a hard strike would be deadly, but your aim would have to be accurate.

Really, it all depends on where and how hard the strike is delivered whether or not it would be lethal.

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#97168 - 05/09/04 02:36 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
I will add this-I was kicked rather hard(to me) in the throat. Since I flinched I was hit left of center of the adam's apple.
there was a period of roughly a minute where it kinda hurt, but I was functioning normaly(could breathe fine, etc.)
After that I could feel my throat swelling, as it began to be difficult to breath. This subsided after a few minutes.
Couldn't manage more than a harsh croak for several days and after a week still sounded like I had laryngitis. After a few weeks voice returned to "normal". Occasionaly during this period whenever I swallowed it felt like razor blades sliding down my throat.

2 years later, I have come to grips that my dream of professionaly singing is over(not that I could sing before, except in the shower-there I sound awesome!). I can no longer hit high notes, squeal like a pig or sound like Michael Jackson [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]

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#97169 - 05/09/04 02:55 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by nekogami13 V2.0:
2 years later, I have come to grips that my dream of professionaly singing is over(not that I could sing before, except in the shower-there I sound awesome!). I can no longer hit high notes, squeal like a pig or sound like Michael Jackson [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Perhaps throat strikes have thier uses after all... [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#97170 - 05/09/04 03:59 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Doughnut Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Mid-west, U.S.A
I have (with shame) kicked a training partner in the throat. I was side kicking, at medium power and he missed the block and did not get out of the way. ( In my defense He knew what was coming as it was a drill we had ben doing for 3min or so) I thought I killed the guy he fell to the ground like a marientte that had its strings cut. He did not breath for a second and then started to wheze and gargle and cough.
Fortunaty all I had done is knocked the wind out of him, and when he tried to breath swollowed spit down the wrong hole.
That was scary though

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#97171 - 05/09/04 08:27 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
exceptionist 2 Offline
one arm napalm punch

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 438
Loc: Kanagawa Tokyo, Japan
Punching to the throat...well maybe a hard enough knife or ridge hand. It's easy enough to displace the adams apple or target either of the corotid arteries, both would affect breathing if damaged. Punches make the accuracy of the impact off, plus the neck is only so big, and the neck itself is rarely trained so most people just have a very little amount of muscle to pad the impact...leaving it #2. on the most vulnerable area list. In short; yes I would think you can kill someone if you hit them properly and hard enough...but the chances of doing this intentionally probably is less than the accident rate. So with that said, be careful.

the exception

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#97172 - 05/10/04 02:17 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
WADO Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 900
Loc: denver co usa
It was really cool the doctor cut him open right on the softball field, he said mabey ten minute delay and the guy would be dead. I can joke because he made a full and complete recovery.

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#97173 - 05/10/04 07:35 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
yes.

If the windpipe is hit and crushed then the person dies unless someone performs a tracheotomy...

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]

In doing chokes be especially careful not to apply them across the windpipe, make sure it is sitting in the crook of your elbow otherwise it will be crushed just like a blow to the throat.

Once crushed it can never return to its normal shape without surgery...

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#97174 - 05/24/04 12:59 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
otobeawanker Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 192
Loc: CANADA
If they're a unfit person who drinks pop and eats candy bars. Very likely. There are a couple of great corroted artery strikes in Krav Maga. But you can't use anything in real life that you don't know so well its as simple as breathing. So if yu want to use a throat strike you better practice it so much its not even fun anymore, its just something that has to be done.

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#97175 - 03/02/05 04:46 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by stephen4785:
Can you kill someone by punching them in the throat.
not if he's a juko-kai

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#97176 - 03/02/05 09:24 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've heard it is possible but wont know for sure. I imagine with my limited knowleage of the human body that it may cause the wind pipe to collaspe and choke someone. Best to avoid stiking anywhere on the neck I think, its a very weak area, as Christopher Reeve knows (may he rest in peace) [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]
But I do think knowing the most dangerous areas to hit is important, so you dont hit them by accident. I know I dont want to accidently kill anyone.

[This message has been edited by JayJay (edited 03-02-2005).]

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#97177 - 03/06/05 11:23 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok Guys you want the truth I have done it. I was in an altercation a quite a few years ago and I hit my attacker (6'1"tall about 200lbs and I was 5' 9" 150lbs at the time) in the throat with a solid and when I say solid I mean it was an easy three board break shot. He dropped instantly clutching his throat. I proceeded to do a couple of stomp kicks to his face nose and mouth breaking his nose. He had no fight left in him at this point so I stopped. Did he die NO!!!!! And I hit that Dude Frickin Hard. Could it have killed another person Who Knows It didn't kill this guy.

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#97178 - 04/15/05 03:12 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Although I have never killed anyone, I am convinced that a good punch to the throath is fatal if the injury is not treated quickly.

When sparring, I have received punches to the nose, jaw, temple, ribs, and kicks to the knee, stomach and groin. All of those hurt but none of those ever put me out of commission. But once, I received a very light strike to the throath (an accidental strike that was not even intended to hit me!), and I could not breathe for a few seconds or swallow my own saliva for a few minutes or eat properly for the rest of the day. Imagine if it had been a real punch. I would have ended up in the operation room.

The wind-pipe is a very delicate part of the anatomy. I have heard that one of the "ancestors" of my kung fu style once ended a fight to the death with a first strike to the throath.

I tell you all: hit someone with a "phoenix eye" punch to the throath and your opponent is as good as dead. So be responsible and go for the throath in life and death situations only!

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#97179 - 04/15/05 03:30 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree with the anarchist (how many times am i going to say that in my life)
It is not hard to kill someone by a knifehand to the throat if they dont receive treatment. But in anycase should be used responsibly. Its not like going for the nutsack, you are probably going to do serious damage if you go for the throat

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#97180 - 04/15/05 05:24 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Anonymous
Unregistered


This reminds me of the movie Roadhouse when Patrick Swayze killed the other guy by ripping out his throat.Don't take what you see on tv as real LOL!
I've been tapped in the larynx,it isn't a pleasant feeling at all. I could see someone dying as a result from a hard blow.
p.s. I don't think Sa Bum Nim can hit very hard. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#97181 - 04/15/05 09:35 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Anonymous
Unregistered


That would be a definite......maybe.

Don't assume any move is 100%.

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#97182 - 04/15/05 09:54 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think a single extended knuckle punch to the throat could be deadly. yikes.

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#97183 - 04/16/05 10:59 AM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Anonymous
Unregistered


It all depends on the Power behind the punch, a good strong punch could kill a man or just knock him out. a Kick or a hit with something else has same outcome. I have personaly been hit in the throat by a Knife-hand, and a spear-hand all did hurt but I wasn't Injured badly, But we were not trying to hurt each other. Now in Sword Training I have been hit in the throat with the Kashiri (Pommel ada endcap) of the sword, hard, and I Cough up some blood. And that was not Pleasant. So all in all It all depends on the Foce. Remindes me of a tech we use in aikido, where a throw by the Jaw is done used to push back the head and well you get the Pic, but yes one of my friends said out on the street not to hit the jaw but the throat and it happend to me at the same night LOL almost got whiplash too, I heal quickly though. But some Techs invlove Throat holds chokes and such and all can kill someone with strong foce. Again all in all it deals with the foce

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#97184 - 04/16/05 11:27 AM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 724
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
I have been hit in the throat during a Dan grading, the person being graded hit me with a lovely spinning backfist which connected right onto my throat. Its not a pleasant feeling and its even worse when you know of the risks because when your throat starts to swell up you also start to freak out and the stress also makes it harder to breath.
An icepack and a day later and I was fine but its definately a dangerous place to hit.

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#97185 - 04/16/05 11:49 AM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Really, though you could hit someone anywhere just about and kill them. A friend of mine was sparring with me and a few other friends one day and became extrememly winded until the point that he went to the hospital. He was told that he had a air buuble in his lungs and that a blow to the chest could have ended it all for him. What if you got punched over the heart and caused it to skip a beat or just stop even? Life is a fragile thing, moreso than most people would like to admit. Ive seen things that should have killed people and things that people should have walked away from with little more than a scratch and it end there life. You just never know.

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#97186 - 04/16/05 02:38 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by stephen4785:
Can you kill someone by punching them in the throat and what are the odds that would happen.What are the affects when you punch someone in the throat.i dont know alot about punching in the throat but Ive had un-educated people tell me you shouldnt punch someone in the throat unless you domnt mind killing them.[/QUOTE]

I've been punched in the throat three times in my life. I haven't died once.

The first time the guy who punched me was wearing gloves. He was trying to uppercut me in the jaw and extended out too far. It hurt more than a punch in gloves usually does but that was all.

The second time was actually an elbow. It momentarily interrupted my air flow (about 1 second) and I collapsed. The guy who did it was afraid he had collapsed my trachea but I was fine a minute later, just had a sore throat the next day.

The third time was the worst, it was a bare-handed sun punch straight to my adam's apple. It was harder than the elbow. Fortunately I had improved in skill by then and rolled with the shot. I kept my feet, kept on fighting for another minute or two and then had to throw up in some bushes.

All in all I would say that getting hit in the throat hurts. But it is not instantaneously fatal in every instance.

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#97187 - 05/04/05 03:28 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone? [Re: nekogami13 V2.0]
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1736
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Once, in a perhaps too enthusiastic kumite, I threw a hard round kick (Ball of the foot) high to my opponent's chest. He unfortunately tried to duck, and the kick caught him full on the Adam's apple. After a couple of horrible seconds, during which his eyes bulged and he couldn't swallow three- four times, he finally opened his mouth and roundly cursed my ancestors clear back to the Stone Age. It never felt so good to be told so many nasty things about my mother! He had a frog in his throat for a few days, but that was it.
The point? Just to reiterate what others have said: Sometimes it's just a bad place to be hit, sometimes it kills and always a place you don't want to strike unless it's life & death.
_________________________
Just when you think something is foolproof, they come out with a new and improved type of fool.

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#97188 - 02/18/06 07:20 AM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone? [Re: judderman]
ShangTsung Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 104
Loc: Bomb factory
for some reason the database wont let me go on 3 but ill ask are you talking about aiming at the trachea
_________________________
OMG MUDKIP MAN WAN ME 9000 INTERNETZ

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#97189 - 02/18/06 09:32 AM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone? [Re: nekogami13 V2.0]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
The original question... can punching someone in the throat kill them? The simple answer is YES... the complicated answer is all the tripe that's been put out so far.

Clearly the brachial plexus is located at the neck, along with the vagus nerve and other primary hitting points in the body's critical systems. Simply striking the wrong location along the lymph system can cause serious damage, not to mention the vagus nerve which is attached to every major organ in the body. As a self defense, it's a good method to be standing in front of a jury later.

Blunt force trauma to the trachea can cause swelling and shut off the air supply to the body, which is certain death. As a CPR instructor, I teach it's the loss of air that kills most people rather than their heart stopping... that happens as a result of the latter in most cases, which is why aligning the trachea to keep it open is so important in teaching CPR.

The last point, is simply force application to the spinal support of the neck. Punches and kicks to this area can cause the spinal cord to snap like a twig, and even if the person is lucky enough to survive, they are parapelegic or quadrapeligic from the loss of nerve connection lost from the disconnection of the spinal cord.

Those idiots that stand and let themselves be knocked out with pressure point attacks to the vagus nerve are asking to have major organ damage somewhere down the road, because there's a difference in resucitation and repair. While these "martial arts masters" can touch the points in the neck that attach to the vagus nerve and cause a knockout, it requires much more than resucitation to repair the damage to the major organs affected by such attacks. The Chinese acupuncturists consider many of these points "forbidden" because they require specialized treatment, sometimes for years, to repair damage to organs caused by hits on the vagus nerve.

If you need a more "modern medicine" reason for not striking the neck, remember that heart surgeons do not want to work around the vagus nerve because they cannot respond quickly enough in many cases to stop a complete body shutdown when it is touched. If you want to be "macho and dead", playing around with the brachial plexus and/or the vagus nerve in the neck is a good way to get there.


My 44 years in the martial arts say "Don't do it... its a trap".
_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#97190 - 02/18/06 09:50 AM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone? [Re: wristtwister]
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
I do not believe anyone was advocating throat strikes for routine training or everyday use.

I believe the consensus was: In a life or death situation, when left no other choice-strike the throat and any other targets you can get to.
_________________________
I'm sorry, I was just imaging what you would look like with duct tape over your mouth

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#97191 - 02/18/06 03:13 PM Re: Will punching in the throat kill someone? [Re: stephen4785]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I agree with everybody that believes its a technique that should never be used unless your life or love ones are is danger. Weather you kill the person or not you are attacking their air way with a fairly uncontrollable force. Any mis estimate and serious injuries could result. If he steps forward or try to duck into it, any change could be serious. Unlike a choke where you are more in control and shutting of the flood of blood to the brain a strike is attacking the air way and blood flood maybe.

Don't do it, it could cost you are your parents medical bills or jail time for you. Or in the least assault and battrey charges maybe man slaughter. Don't try it or do it.

Unless in danger...


Edited by Neko456 (02/18/06 07:50 PM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

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