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#96768 - 03/29/04 06:50 AM attacked from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


Another one from proffessor Gene:
http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=420

I would attempt this in the dojo, not so sure about on the street, especially concrete. That could be just me, my breakfalling sucks. What do the more experienced grapplers think of this defence, bearing in mind the person being attacked is a women (lighter, weaker).
a) would those of you who are accomplished in breakfalling attempt this sort of sacrifice throw in the dojo/on the street?
b) would you recommend it to someone like myself (ie NOT at all accomplished in landing unlike a sack of spuds
c) if not, what would you reccomend instead?

Thanks
Sharon

[This message has been edited by wadowoman (edited 03-29-2004).]

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#96769 - 03/29/04 08:34 AM Re: attacked from behind
dazzler2 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 148
Loc: england
Hmmm!

My suggestion is to put that right hand or elbow to work!

I'd also get my right leg behind the guy and maybe look for some form of takedown.

Professor Gene...If that guy decides to drop to one knee then that young lady has just put herself into a backbreaker over it.

That looks like self destruction not self defence.

Of course it could just be the photos...its easy from a keyboard.

D

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#96770 - 03/29/04 10:07 AM Re: attacked from behind
the504mikey Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
I've practiced and taken the fall for some of these techniques...

My take on it:

If you stand there and let it happpen, and someone (even someone light) manages to jump up and hang his or her entire body weight in the crook of your elbow, then you're going for a rough and sudden ride.

There are a lot of "If's" in there, and I'm not done yet! It takes a lot of commitment to the technique on the defender's part to make something like this fly (no pun intended). As Dazzler pointed out, if the attacker changes his plans before you break his balance he can turn an attempt like this one into a complete disaster for the defender.

I'm a big fan of using your body weight in the crook of a person's elbow to take him down or break his posture-- it's simple and very effective. But there are lots of ways to do it while keeping both your own feet on the ground and your backup options open.

I like sacrifice throws a lot, too, but not this one. It is too hard to get the leverage where it needs to be to make this one work, and all the outcomes of it not working are bad for the defender. IMO this one is dojo only, just to play with a neat thing and learn some body mechanics you can use for other stuff. Maybe one day my understanding will deepen to the point where I feel like I could trust something like this outside the dojo, but I've been concentrating on this stuff for a few years now and I'm not there yet.

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#96771 - 03/29/04 10:53 AM Re: attacked from behind
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
I agree with Mikey. You can flip somebody over your back by controlling the crook of the elbow and dropping down to one knee. You don't have to launch your body into the air and slam yourself onto the pavement.

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#96772 - 03/29/04 12:50 PM Re: attacked from behind
sunspots Offline
oldtimer/newbie
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 650
Loc: Southern Oregon, USA
I would not even attempt the kind of body-slam this seems to call for.

If I were the defender in this one, I would turn my head to the right to release the pressure on my breathing, step off left, and throw a couple of quick hard right elbows to the stomach, and/or hammer the groin. This should at least soften the attacker up, so I could slip out of his grasp. Scoop kicks to the groin might also be useful, or good old-fashioned foot stomps.

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#96773 - 03/29/04 02:25 PM Re: attacked from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


The problem with this move and every other self defense movement is it is based on a static attacker.

If someone grabs you from behind, placing there hand over your mouth-it is for one reason-they are MOVING you somewhere else. This means they will drag you backwards. No attacker is going to grab you and stand there waiting for your counter.

Try to foot stomp,scoop kick, fly up into air, pull attacker forward when they grab you and drag you backwards. It is not easy, especialy if they outweigh you and are stronger than you.

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#96774 - 03/29/04 06:04 PM Re: attacked from behind
exceptionist 2 Offline
one arm napalm punch

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 438
Loc: Kanagawa Tokyo, Japan
From the picture a few opportunities are presented:

1. The hand of the defender is conveniently close to the groin of the attacker.
2. If the attacker puts his hand near your mouth...well. (Given you divert the focus/pressure from his hand covering your mouth)to something else-foot stomp turning while trying to bite.
3. An attempt to sink your head and turn towards the elbow of the raised arm of the attacker is personally what I would do. Done suddenly; will give you the close range lifting or take down you want in the terms of grappling. I would prefer to strike, but the question was on a grappling basis.

I agree with most; that unless you are fairly heavy enough to cause your opp. to fall with you, this move is a set up for disaster.

the exception

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#96775 - 03/29/04 08:13 PM Re: attacked from behind
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
This brings to mind a mugging attack in NY. The mugger grabbed a threw the woman to the ground from behind. I think this authors counter is garbage. First of all you are going to be stunned. And grabbing the muggers arm and rolling him wouldn't really work in the classroom either. Condition you mind and body to go belly button to belly button. So even if you are stunned, you will go to your back and your next goal would be to go for the guard while you get your wits about you. Ed

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#96776 - 03/29/04 09:03 PM Re: attacked from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


Agreed, Ed. No one grabs you without the intent to move you,throw you down.

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#96777 - 03/30/04 12:05 AM Re: attacked from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


Been working on this with my husband and found the following:

First if my mouth is closed, no way can I bite.

Second, if he is dragging me backwards (which, I agree is the most likely scenario)it is very difficult to get an elbow strike in. The best options seemed to be either stomping my heel down his shin, or grabbing his genitals and squeezing and twisting. The shin attack is only annoying because I could not stomp hard enough whilst moving backwards off balance and causes him to move backwards even faster and/or lift me off the ground completely.

Twisting the genitals HARD seems to be the best bet, this gave me enough space to twist my body to the left towards him, releasing his grip on my mouth. I also tried attacking his eyes with one hand whilst simultaneously attacking his groin with the other. This was not possible as he is too tall.

Any other ideas?
Sharon

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