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#96638 - 03/06/04 11:08 AM Article by Matt Thornton
Anonymous
Unregistered


http://www.realfighting.com/0503/mthorntonframe.html
This is an interesting article on Self Defence by Matt Thornton. (The site it is taken from has some other good articles too.

Comments?
sharon

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#96639 - 03/06/04 02:46 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Anonymous
Unregistered


Good article, in Canada it seems we are more carefull than paranoid. Awareness is great, but one can walk around carrying a lot of fear, which leads to paranoid ways.

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#96640 - 03/06/04 05:28 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Jamoni Offline
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Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Um, in Canada, don't you have like, half the population of L.A.? Also, isn't it on average kind of chilly? Why do I ask? Because high population density (14.6 people per km USA, vs 3.1 people per km, Canada) is a huge contributor to crime. Also, violent crime rises dramatically as the temperature rises. So, if I put all the canadians in a city the size of Albany, and turned the heat up to 115 degrees, I think you would learn that paranoia ain't always bad. I had a friend (young, liberal, idealistic) who joined the peace corps and shipped to Rwanda.... just as the hutu vs tutsi thing hit the fan. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif[/IMG] When she came back, we saw a little more eye to eye on human nature.
Oh yeah, nice article.

[This message has been edited by Jamoni (edited 03-06-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Jamoni (edited 03-06-2004).]

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#96641 - 03/07/04 07:01 AM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey you are exactly right about your facts. Here we fight bordum, and the cold. We have less cultural clashes ect... It is a great place to live. I agree totaly with what you said, and that is why we are carfull, not paranoid. I carry a folder everywhere,shot gun is close by, but not in the car. Bears are a bigger problem than Drive By shootings.
If you could would you move?

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#96642 - 03/07/04 12:16 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Jamoni Offline
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Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Heck no! I hate the cold, and I don't mind random jerks. Besides, how would I earn a living? Teaching people to say "O"?
But you have some GREAT strip clubs!

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#96643 - 03/07/04 06:09 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Anonymous
Unregistered


You forgot that are beer is better !!!

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#96644 - 03/07/04 09:46 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by kobun:
You forgot that are beer is better !!![/QUOTE]

That's why we import it,so we don't have to go up there and freeze. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#96645 - 03/07/04 11:21 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Jamoni Offline
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Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Better beer from canada? I think you are mistaken. And I HAVE done my share of field testing.

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#96646 - 03/08/04 04:41 AM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
joesixpack Offline
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Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
Mooshead or Blue , "Blech" is terrible, Miller Genuine Draft is a good American beer, Bud is too weak, I have never had a "boutique" US beer, my god this is starting to sound like http://www.monderndrunkardmagazine.com/bbs

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#96647 - 03/08/04 10:21 AM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Jamoni Offline
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Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Back to a (somewhat) martial related topic, I think we can agree that heat and population density are "catalysts" for violent crime rather than direct causes. Obviously cheap nasty beer is another such catalyst. I would include the presence of young insecure males as one. Let's see, drug use/sales, poverty, hanging out with loose women (whee!), high stress/anxiety levels, racial tension... this could be quite a list. I would bet that "success" in life is mainly an ability to avoid these catalysts rather than the direct causes of conflict. Most fights seem to be over relatively minor issues (you cut me off! did not! did too!) but the presence of multiple violence catalysts escalate a situation out of all proportion to it's importance. Gasoline on a match.
BTW the best beer I've had is LEft Hand BlackJack Porter, a micro brew from Colorado. If you c-AY-n-AY-d-AY-ians can beat that, I'll give you the points. (but we have nude beaches).

[This message has been edited by Jamoni (edited 03-08-2004).]

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#96648 - 03/08/04 12:24 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Bossman Offline
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Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wadowoman:
http://www.realfighting.com/0503/mthorntonframe.html
This is an interesting article on Self Defence by Matt Thornton. (The site it is taken from has some other good articles too.

Comments?
sharon
[/QUOTE]

A long rambling advert.

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#96649 - 03/08/04 04:26 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
You are right Jamoni, doppelbock is great, and housinhg "projects" (high density housing for welfare recipients) is not a good idea.

People on welfare have a high incentive to steal,(not work either, email a econ professor about work disincentives) and drug laws make the selling of such laws profitbale, as long as you are ruthless.

I blame drug laws, poorly thought out welfare, spatial economic problems, and generational poverty that results.

Poverty and no good role models make the yopung men more insecure.

Other crimes can be put up to stupidity or disrespect for other people's rights.

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#96650 - 03/09/04 04:32 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Jamoni Offline
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Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Hell, Joe, I put it ALL down to survival of the fittest. Most animal populations go through periods of growth, where the population has few selective pressures on it. Population goes WAY up, quality in general, WAY down. Then along comes a period of instability and high selective pressures. Population goes WAY down, general quality goes WAY up. We call these unstable times "war" "famine" "pestilence" and "disease". And preparing for them is at the core of my reasons for training.

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#96651 - 03/09/04 05:43 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
You sound like Malthus.

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#96652 - 03/09/04 06:09 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Jamoni Offline
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Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Malthus couldn't take the idea to it's logical extreme because he started with faulty pre-conceptions. He had ideas of "good" and "bad", so he could not accept the cyclical nature of populations. Emotionally, he could not accept the fact that the majority of people are born to fail.
Simply put, where resources are scarce, competition is great, and maximum ability is needed to survive and reproduce. Where resources are freely available, competition is low. This means ANYONE can hack it, but this leads to population increase, which in turn causes a SCARCITY OF RESOURCES. One big circle. In animal populations, predators do the culling, but with man, we have destroyed all our natural enemies except one: other men. And THAT'S why I train to fight other people.

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#96653 - 03/09/04 09:09 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
this is really a tanget now, but I don't take you version of events to an extreme, but there is such a things as a "kondartieff wnter". Affultent societies do go in cycles, even if they never reach down to a previous level.

survival ins't that hard once there is some wealth. it's wars and so on that destroy welath that lead to poverty and "tension" but there are a lot of dead people.

the crime rates, and types of crimes commited in post war europe may be an interesting piece of data.

even with high crime rates, in an affluent society, you merely keep your mouth shut, follow enough laws and work hard. others can sponge.

the interesting point is wether poor societies allow "sponging", and if this keeps them poor. or for how long a society could get richer without significant levels of sponging.

I think somehow not paying taxes may serve you better than MA. But how do you define success? Are you successful if you can get by using common thuggery?

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#96654 - 03/09/04 10:12 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Taking your last point first, YES. IF simple theft is tolerated, then it can be a succesful strategy. Any strategy which meets the needs of the organism with a minimum of risk can be considered succesful. However, It is part of MY survival strategy to not allow my resources to be stolen.
Also, wealth is resources, and there is a finite amount. When resources become concentrated, you have wealthy few and poor many. Thus war and such do not DESTROY wealth, they merely REDISTRIBUTE it. In order for one man (or nation) to be wealthy, he must deny that wealth to others. All wealth is built on a food surplus. Think about it: if everyone had to spend all their time gathering/growing food, there would be no time left to practice other skills. So by forcing others to grow our food cheaply, we can afford to specialize in other areas (computer programming, politics, police work, whatever). Its a game, and for there to be a winner, there has to be a million losers. Thats why those who do the least have the most. They won the game.

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#96655 - 03/10/04 04:22 AM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
Wars do also redistribute wealth...but why do you see someone who is inconspicuous but not wealthy or powerful as unsuccessful?

What about the average guy who owns his home, kids, works, middle managemnt or less?

I am more worried about envy of other s I meet in person, in terms of violence. Political pressure groups don't hbeat me up. I think it is absolutely important to talk about culture and demographics when we talk about crime and self defense.

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#96656 - 03/10/04 05:04 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
I don't assume the "grey man" is unsuccesful. Actually, the opposite. From a strictly genetic standpoint, a person who raises a maximum amount of children of maximum survival ability is a true success. From a personal standpoint, a lifetime of drudgery trying to feed all those kids sucks. However, if you trick some other schmuck into toiling for your money, they call you succesful. My point is that every single person who does anything other than grow food is a parasite living off the labors of those who do.
I'm fine with that. I have no desire to toil in the fields. I just think it's funny that worldwide, farmers live more poorly than almost any other employed group of people.

[This message has been edited by Jamoni (edited 03-10-2004).]

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#96657 - 03/11/04 04:11 AM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
kiwi Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
People used to all make their won food. As people began to specialise in things food became more abundant. Simply put I consider the person who created a machine to chop weat 100 times faster then a man could, more important then the farmer who runs the machine.

Look at a place like New Zealand. We make easily enough to feed the population (most of the food produced in New Zealand is exported). However we have few farmers in comparison to the poulation. Because of the surplus in food luxury items like cars, computers are in high demand hence all the specialists. If a farmer gives you food in exchange for being the lawyer at his court case, and you manage to get him off the death
penalty, who is the parasite?

If you give him what he wants and he gives you waht you want. Neither of you are a parasite.

Your view is strictly based on evolution. Evolution has been newted by medical technology. Look at the increase in people with bad eye site.

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#96658 - 03/11/04 04:55 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Kiwi, are you seriously suggesting that LAWYERS are not parasites? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]
I think you'll find that medical technology has only changed the rules. Instead of dying of pox, now you get to die of malnutrition or violence. Also, medical science is a technology itself, which requires resources and an intricate infrastructure. Disrupt this infrastructure or deny the materials needed, and medical sciences ability to save lives falls dramatically. Thus it is only available to the relatively powerful (those who can afford it.)
(incidentally, what lawyer would work for food? That farmer gets a public defender.... and probably the chair.)

[This message has been edited by Jamoni (edited 03-11-2004).]

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#96659 - 03/11/04 09:17 PM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
kiwi Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 789
Loc: Wellington New Zealand
Well you just have to look at what people reproduce the most to look at how evolution doesn't work for humans anymore. In general smarter people get better jobs and have a higher standard of living. They are also in general more informed about contraception and can choose whether they wish to have children or not. Stupider people tend to get worse jobs and have more children.

The richest countires populations are going down and the poorest ones are going up.

I do however get your point that without food were all screwed, but a mass outbreak of disease that only killed lawyers wouldn't be as bad a thing.

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#96660 - 03/12/04 06:18 AM Re: Article by Matt Thornton
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
You also have to look at who's children are most likely to die before reproducing. Is it the priveleged only child of the suburb, or the neglected street rat left to fend for himself in a slum of drugs and violence? Is it the child who's parents can afford (and care about) education, health care, and good diet? OR is it the child who is wearing a diaper when he's six, and will never see the inside of a school until mommy is shot or put in jail and he has to go to a foster family who's only use for him is the money the state hands out? High birth rate does NOT mean high survival rate, but it DOES mean heightened selective pressure.

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