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#96280 - 02/24/04 02:48 PM Re: Best Strikes For Real Fights
goldencrane Offline

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 432
Loc: Kansas City Kansas USA
I am not trying to step on anyones toes or hurt anyones feelings, ..... But it is very difficult to say what you would do in a "REAL" fight. The average fight lasts about 10-20 seconds, after that it is usually someone getting a mudhole stomped in thier backside.

No one knows exactly what they would do, you might have an idea but you truley wont know. Your body has to react without you consciously thinking move to move. When that adrenalin dump kicks in, unless you train for it The average person will lose simple motor skills. Im not saying that every one is this way, but more people are than are not!!!

I would sugest the K.I.S.S. method when training for survival in a "REAL" fight.
" Keep it savagly simple"

#96281 - 02/24/04 07:17 PM Re: Best Strikes For Real Fights
JKogas Offline

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Gotta agree that the straight right is the punch that you want. That's the high percentage shot that's going to land and do something.

The knee shot to the face (from the clinch) works very nicely as well. Just leave the kicks at home. People close quickly and clinch up in real fights. You may only have one GOOD opportunity to hit cleanly before this happens. That's why the knee strike is my second choice.


#96282 - 07/06/04 11:20 PM Re: Best Strikes For Real Fights

the best move totally depends on who u are fighting and how they fight

i prefer punches for most situatations too, but also elbows, knees, palm heel strikes, spear handed thrusts to the eyes and throat, and low round houses to the thigh and side of knee cap, maybe the ribs if they are completely open. Sometimes chops too.

Higher kicks can be usefull against inexperienced fighters to end the fight quickly.

#96283 - 07/10/04 04:40 AM Re: Best Strikes For Real Fights

Definitely the headbutt as an opening move, especially if you get the drop on your opponent and can tell by the verbal escalation that a fight is imminent (or of course if your personal "Insult Barrier", whatever that may be, has been crossed and you feel morally O.K. with throwing the first shot to make things physical. You know....if the guy is a straight-up a**hole and deserves it).
A great setup is to headbutt him in mid-sentence, preferrably if you're the one talking (if at all possible about how you're religous and don't fight, how sorry you are for whatever set him off, or how your child/parent/sibling/girlfriend just died and the last thing you need is a fight. You get the idea....the more you're able to fake emotion the better, not really too hard if your adrenaline is escalating along with the conversation).
Standing in a solid base, fire your head straight forward impacting with the point of your forehead, right below the line of your scalp(or if balding as I am, right where that spot used to be) right into his nose. Aim through the head and use your neck muscles as well as lunging your upper body forward as fast and powerfully as possible. Also....PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!!!!!!!! I have heard very few instructors over the years really devote time to the art of the headbutt, and those who did rarely incorporated it into any heavy bag work routines (it works great if you like to straddle the heavy bag on the ground and practice ground striking drills.....a must to round off your grappling training).

When training on the heavy bag, practice both from a relaxed (or relaxed looking anyway) stance to develop your surprise cheap-shot skills, and also work it in from various angles with punches, kicks, elbows, etc.
Another great head-butt attack is to grasp both lapels of your opponent's jacket (if he's wearing one....t-shirt or soft shirt of any kind is no good) or grasp behind the head with one or both hands and pull him into the shot. Of course if he's stupid enough to have ample hair and still engage in fighting (I LOVE those guys!!!) grab that.
Hair pulling and the double lapel grip are the best for multiple headbutts as well as the most powerful (if anyone doubts the power of this shot, tie a large GI or jacket with FIRM lapels around your heavy bag in such a way that you are able to grab and pull the bag into your headbutt, you'll feel how easily you could smash the nose, orbital socket, or even crush the sinus cavity [one of our students is a doctor who while watching the bag training commented on the likelyhood of this happening. I myself have only ever hit the nose or mouth] the face with the push/pull motion....just start easy if you have a weak neck. And expect a headache after the first couple of training sessions).
A word of caution however, aim well as I sliced my head open pretty well on a tooth once....go for that eye-watering, sight-blurring, CRUNCH sounding shnozz!

Also, as my punching skill is quite average, I like the elbow combinations and the knee strikes from the neck-clinch.

Now if I could only perfect my Death-Touch!


#96284 - 07/10/04 08:45 AM Re: Best Strikes For Real Fights

Oh I've got the delayed death blow perfected! I know that some of the guys I have hit will be dead in fifty or sixty years!

The human head is the hardest part of the body. If you want punch it, make sure you hit the nose or come across to the jaw. If you catch the jaw (with a lot of power) on the edge so that the neck snaps to one side, you have a fair chance of crimping the nerve in the vegas sheath enough so that they will be stunned or possibly even knocked out. It's the twist, not the impact that does the trick.

I prefer to use my palm or forearm when stricking hard targets. I'll also use a knee on occasion. Other wise I want to attack the soft body parts such as eyes, throat, solar plexus and groin. I prefer to work in close until I have an attacker "softened up" and then I may use a kick while he is somewhat dazed. It just depends.

All plans work perfectly until the first contact occurs. Instead of specific techniques, concentrat on concepts. You may not have a technique for every single situation, but concepts can be applied to anything.

[This message has been edited by TwoGun (edited 07-10-2004).]

#96285 - 07/10/04 09:45 AM Re: Best Strikes For Real Fights
Ed Glasheen Offline

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
I disagree with the headhunting mentality. Everyone expects it and you are not Mike Tyson.

Instead of thinking about which strike to make and then throwing those sport, boxing, strikes...think about what targets to strike. I like the neck, any area, and the groin. No matter how hard someone works out ie weights, you will never strengthen those areas.

Most of the discusion on this thread is based on sport fighting. If that is what you are doing then great...but in a street fight if you expect to dance around and go toe to toe, you have not learned anything about warfare. Which I think martial artists should study besides learning this hook and that combinations.

In so many post there is so much worry about this that and the other thing. ie the law, multiple attackers ect. Why is so much of the martial artists out there so dam fearful of so much crap.

Do you think your attacker has all this crap going thru his head. No he just wants to take you out...period. So why not think the same.

Besides you can learn all this fancy crap which takes up most of class in katas but guess'll go caveman in a real fight anyway. so why bother.

Just hit him where it counts and hit him first as hard as you can. Ed

#96286 - 07/10/04 12:12 PM Re: Best Strikes For Real Fights

Just my opinion, but I Really like what's being said on this thread so far (And no....I'm not just referring to my 4 mile long "Mastering Headbutt Technique" post either [IMG][/IMG]
Seriously though, what Ed said means a lot....the hit hard and hit first thing is a huge factor in my personally putting so much value in the headbutt (cheap surprise shot style especially!).

We all have certain techniques that have worked well for us I suppose and for me the headbutt is right up there at the top of the list.
Then again my game is %80 grappling so maybe I've had to compensate for having not developed the spinning crescent or whatever...who knows.

As far as sport fighting and street fighting go....(assuming by sport fighting you mean MMA/NHB), there is still far more crossover than there is difference. The best so-called "Street Fighters" (I like the term "Oppurtunist Fighters" myself) that I have ever met over the years are for the most part those who train for and/or ESPECIALLY compete in MMA/NHB....funny how that's so much the consensus among those of us who train with or around these guys.
Anyway.....i'm still new to this site and I'm really enjoying myself (Pretty Much the first Martial Arts site where I'm not just advertising for my school, as I recently transferred my ownership after 4 years), thank you all for welcoming my annoying, opinionated ass!

Oh yeah...for what it's worth I feel that developing your arsenal of technique through experience and training is MORE important than focusing on concept. Concept is important, but you're going to fight like you train for the most part. It takes far more blood, sweat, and tears (hopefully NOT urine [IMG][/IMG]) to develop ablity and skill....conceptual grasp of a theory or idea is pretty much cerebral.

And the whole issue of throat strikes and/or eye gouges because those are soft targets......if you pull it off with the cheap-shot that's one thing, but if your opponent is going to expect a punch to the head (Headhunting), than he certainly will have an easier time defending a relatively small target strike like an eye-poke or throat strike...both of which are coming in at head level also.
And if we're worried about our opponent expecting any particular strikes, the groin strike is OBVIOUSLY common enough to be expected (not to mention the reality of the groin strike being far more difficult to pull off effectively than many people think.
Also, it's often NOT the 'Fight Stopper' some think it is. For example out of about 70 students at our school, only 20 or so wear cups (or mouthpieces for that choppers are a mess. And ear protection.....what's that? It looks like the veggie aisle out on the mat sometimes) and we're getting smashed there pretty good. It hurts like hell and often (but by no means always) the injured dude stops training for a bit...but in a real adrenaline-charged situation........very different. I've been struck there myself fighting and having worked in clubs over the years I've seen many kicks and knees to the 'nads land without stopping the fight (for the most part).

#96287 - 07/10/04 12:36 PM Re: Best Strikes For Real Fights

find a weaknes and use it to your advantage,
keep them on the back foot don't stop till the threat is over.
sweap+kick the legs and groin , attack balence, hit fast and hard
do what ever is posible to finnish it
make the first strike count as it may only take one strike to finnish it.
legs low, hands high

[This message has been edited by xblis (edited 07-13-2004).]

#96288 - 07/10/04 02:24 PM Re: Best Strikes For Real Fights

Don't get me wrong TJ, I never said don't practice techniques. Perhaps I didn't articualte it well. My point is that when a fight actually occurs, have one or two paticular techinques that have predetermined you will use may not work.

Look, if you teach some one to break away from being held by the wrist, you show them how and which dirction to pull away and twist. That's teaching them a technique. But if you tell them what they need to do is work agains the single thumb becaue it is far weaker than the the opposing four fingers, a student will understand the concept and will figure out on thier own which way to pull and twist. That is teaching a concept.

As I stated the head is a hard target and therefore not my favorite. Your point about obvious targets being well protected and hard to hit are valid, but you can usually find one open or can create an opening.

Once committed to violence you must hit hard, fast and again and again. I can only remember on altercation I was in where I hit someone more than two or three times and the fight was over. You don't really need the endurance of a boxer or great physcial strength, but you do need committment to your course of action once you determine that violent action is your only course.

I don't really think we're in disagreement here, I simply didn't do a good job of relaying my opinion.

#96289 - 07/10/04 02:56 PM Re: Best Strikes For Real Fights

Oh yeah, I pretty much do agree with what you're saying here. Actually knowing WHY something works can be helpful as it teaches you to think in the right direction...good point

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