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#95752 - 11/01/03 07:55 AM Why I like the palm heel strike
pharvey Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18
The main reason I like the palm hel strike is because you are less likely to break your hand with this type of strike than you are with a closed fisted strike. Also I like the palm heel to the chin because this breaks your attacker's balance, then you can step in and throw him to the ground.

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#95753 - 11/01/03 08:17 AM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi PHarvey, welcome to these forums [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

The reason I love palm heel strikes is that to an onlooker (witness) or to anyone watching cctv after the incident it looks less agressive than a punch. "I only pushed him officer" or "I only slapped him your honour"
Sharon

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#95754 - 11/01/03 09:08 AM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
charles mckey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 1368
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wadowoman:
The reason I love palm heel strikes is that to an onlooker (witness) or to anyone watching cctv after the incident it looks less agressive than a punch. "I only pushed him officer" or "I only slapped him your honour"
[/QUOTE]

Oddly enough, there are some MMA competitions where you can palm heel, but not punch. Apparently the ruling exists because of a similar rationale, i.e. punching is deemed less acceptable than palm heeling by either venues or licensing authorities (I forget which).

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#95755 - 11/01/03 03:27 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Tkdstreetfighter88 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 138
Loc: Ocala, Fl, USA
I have never used a palm strike in combat before with the exception of one to the solar plexus.

In my school we are taught about the plam strike to the solar plexus to drop an opponent. We are also taught to strike the nose with one for fatal results.(Not getting into the debate of the nose bone in the brain thing, my instructor claims he seen people killed by a plam to the nose in WW2. But thats not my question)

My question is if you use a palm to the chin can you sanp someones neck or not? I have heard people tell me that a plam can throw someone off balance and maybe ko them, i have heard that a palm to the chin can snap the neck crippling your opponent or killing them. What is true?

Also if you use a palm upside the jaw or to the eye socket can you ko some as if you used a punch?Also does it leave a noticeable mark like a punch does.

I just know that a palm is more powerful and less painful for you by using it on combos to the punching bag.

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#95756 - 11/01/03 05:11 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
People think slapping doesn't hurt.

Here's a free lesson; most untrained people cannot punch to hurt people.

Slapping bloody hruts, and some palces ask for it.

I like it, one knuckle punches and seizing muscle groups, then elbowing the said opponent.

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#95757 - 11/02/03 12:39 AM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Anonymous
Unregistered


tkdfighter, answer to your questions is yes.
Yes, someone's neck could snap-same as any strike to head.

Yes,you can knock someone out with it,same as any head strike.

As for marks-a black eye is a black eye.As for bruising on other parts,don't know.
I do know my instructor can palm strike and leave a perfect handprint on you.

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#95758 - 11/02/03 02:24 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Hard target [head], soft weapon [palm-heel]...

my favourite head strike
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] Devastating.

Also better if facing the law afterwards you can say "oh, but I only slapped him" and there are no bruises or cuts on your knuckles like there would be from punching.

You can hit harder using waveform techniques too.

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#95759 - 11/03/03 10:27 AM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
the504mikey Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
TKD,

I think the technique you are referring to is what people who have studied WWII Comabatives call a "chin jab". This may be what your instructor was alluding to, although he would have to be pretty old to have seen it first hand. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

The palm is thrust under the chin, cranking the neck back-- not into the nose. It's like an upper cut to the chin, only done with the palm (and therefore with the inside of the forearm forward, unlike the upper cut). Ths shock from this blow can definitely generate enough "brain rattle" to knock someone out. You can crouch down while entering, then use the legs to add power to the blow when you come up.

When people speak of this technique being fatal, they are most likely referring to the "second half" of the technique, where the person's legs are swept out from under him (like osoto gari in judo), and then the head is driven into the ground when they fall.

The whole sequence is continuous-- pop the chin, sweep the legs (or leg), then drive them headfirst into the pavement. Obviously this is a very dangerous technique, and it should only be considered where lethal force is justified. In the WWII Combative manuals, the enemy was usually finished by stomping or jumping on them with heavy boots.

As far as I know, no one has ever been killed with a palm strike to the nose. Anatomically speaking, it's extremely unlikely. If you know someone who insists this has happened you might take it as a sign that you should evaluate other things he tells you carefully.

Busting someone's head open on the cement, though, is easier than it should be...

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#95760 - 11/08/03 03:19 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
roundhouser Offline
Member

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 96
Loc: melbourne
i agree............

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#95761 - 11/08/03 05:38 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Tkdstreetfighter88 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 138
Loc: Ocala, Fl, USA
Yea my master instructor is pretty old like 85 or something like that. Hes been doing MA since the 40s, and been doing tae kwon do and hapkido since the 60s, and old style from korea called chung do kwan. In are one step sparring, #3 and #13 involve palm thrust to the nose. He told us that they are the most lethal of attacks and can kill someone instantly, he claims to have seen people drop dead from palm heels back in WW2. Ive heard that palms to the nose arent fatal, but thats what hes said. #1 and #11 are also to the nose, but with a punch instead. As well as #6 and #16 with backfist to the nose. He tells us that punches and backfist will break the nose while a plam heel will have fatal results. I personally beleive are #5 is the most lethal(a spearhand to the throat).But hes the 5th blackbelt not me. I was just curious about a palm to the chin because i would think the neck would get the full force of the blow.

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#95762 - 12/07/03 12:28 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
phil k Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 4
Loc: oh
I agree a palm heel is as effective as a punch. and looks better to on lookers. also a plam strike is less likely to cause external bleeding which is a plus when it comes to civil and criminal liability. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#95763 - 12/07/03 04:08 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
The chin jab is an excellent shot from the clinch! Talk about lights out!


-John

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#95764 - 12/08/03 02:23 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Palm strike is good after you have somebody mounted on the ground. If their head is pinned against the ground(preferrably because your knee is on either their neck or jaw), it is good to strike the face and/or skull. I personally think it is easier to break more concrete with a palm strike than a fist. And that is precisely what that break is practicing. If you can do between 5 - 10 of the patio bricks you should be able to do serious damage to a skull. If you punch someone with their head pinned against the ground you will probably do more damage to your hand than to their head. It will take years of extensive makiwara training to not break your hand if you punch them with full force in this way.

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#95765 - 12/09/03 06:59 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
brentb Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/03
Posts: 26
Loc: Auckland New Zealand
I like the Palm stike as it is good for close fighting.I also teach women students this technique as i believe it avoids damaging your wrist like an incorrect punch can.Many beginners especially women do not punch correctly and this strike is effective and reduces the possibility of wrist damage.

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#95766 - 03/24/05 04:46 AM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Anonymous
Unregistered


Err. first of all i'm new on this forum, so hi.

But talking about punching being painful, tell me this, if your TRULY furious (if you get mad sometimes) do you even think about the pain? Because when i'm TRULY TRULY mad I don't feel ANYTHING of pain at all, just a soft feeling bouncing against my hand when it comes into contact with something.

NORMAL wise (your not pissed) ok, then I have to agree.

I like palm heel because I can hit Very VERY fast (rapid fire like) and then it can be good to not hurt yourself TOO much when punching the enemy :P then well, you can basically do any combo from floor-sweep elbow to knee-(jump)-hit to w/e (i'm dutch though so I barely know any of them names for certain moves)

whether you believe it or not, i just have 1 more ( off-topic a bit) question:

noone ever really told me but like you can punch in many many ways.

But WHAT kind of punch is it when you punch forward, but it feels like your blood and bones move afterwards by some invisible impact, then when I aim to punch right (left arm punches, then the lower part bends and your fist goes from straight to right) it feels as if my bones get dragged along by the force behind the punch.

It feels really weird and it's kinda strange to see your arm from going straight, to slamming to your right in an instant (you don't see your arm bending, it just does it in an instant, as if it warped O.o)

[This message has been edited by 0mega (edited 03-24-2005).]

[This message has been edited by 0mega (edited 03-24-2005).]

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#95767 - 03/24/05 07:17 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Anonymous
Unregistered


I firmly believe that every punch has its purpose, in combat I have found the a palm heel punch to be for the most effective only in self-defense, where as a punch that is made to dig into an enemy’s flesh is much more efficient in all other areas.

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#95768 - 03/25/05 04:23 AM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Anonymous
Unregistered


Extremly effective strike, personnally I eliminated all punching methods from mine and put in palmheels and shutos(knife hand). Based on ww combatives its the shuto to the bridge of the nose that kills. Another very effective method.....knee to the groin followed by a chin jab and sweep...........game over in otherwords. Because of the reaction to the groin shot the chin jabs power is tripled.

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#95769 - 03/25/05 11:42 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Anonymous
Unregistered


palm heel to eyes can be devastating. you can feel it just by gently tapping your eyes with your palm heel. so never do it unless you mean to injure/cripple

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#95770 - 03/27/05 11:30 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Anonymous
Unregistered


i'm 15, and i've been fighting since i was 8. my father showed me teh palm heel as my first lesson. true if applied directly to the and go in an upward position with it. it is infact very leathal, killing some one instantly, another one i learnt was take teh palm, and slam it down on the nose. this brakes the nose, but is not leathal. the bleeding nose makes your enemy's eyes water giving you an advantage. i'd suggest not trying this cause if you mess up, your can put who ever your tryign it on in grave danger.

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#95771 - 03/28/05 12:10 AM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Anonymous
Unregistered


There's a big difference in someone showing you a "move" and being able to apply it to a real situation. The only way you'll be able to do that is proper instruction and practice,practice,and practice.
I hear people all the time saying,"I'll just do this or that",but in reality when it comes down to it they panic and flail because they never practiced or had instruction.

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#95772 - 03/28/05 06:16 AM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi, Omega,
Welcome among us!
It's true that pain will be lessened or anihilated by the "combat high", but pain and damage are two very different things. If your punch breaks your wrist or your knuckles (which is likely enough if you aren't properly trained and/or conditioned), pain or not, you're no longer able to deliver any effective strike with the damaged hand. No good...

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#95773 - 03/28/05 02:27 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Anonymous
Unregistered


Cupped hands as opposed to tight fists are preferable in my opinion. One certainly needs his fingers free to grapple.

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#95774 - 03/28/05 02:39 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree that the palm heel is a brilliant technique for head strikes but I'd like to try and dispell the idea that correctly applied punch = broken hand.

For many years boxing was practised bare knuckled with relatively fewer broken hands than today. The problem is that with the advent of gloved boxing, punching style has changed and the structure of punches is incorrect for bare knuckled boxing.

Look up "London Prize Ring Rules" boxing for more information. (Grappling moves were also used in boxing back then)
http://www.savateaustralia.com/Savate%20Essays/Bare-Knuckles%20to%20Modern%20Boxing.htm http://www.answers.com/topic/boxing http://library.thinkquest.org/3369/boxing/about.htm http://www.hotboxingnews.com/1899_-_pre.htm

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#95775 - 04/01/05 04:37 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tkdstreetfighter88:
I have never used a palm strike in combat before with the exception of one to the solar plexus.

In my school we are taught about the plam strike to the solar plexus to drop an opponent. We are also taught to strike the nose with one for fatal results.(Not getting into the debate of the nose bone in the brain thing, my instructor claims he seen people killed by a plam to the nose in WW2. But thats not my question)

My question is if you use a palm to the chin can you sanp someones neck or not? I have heard people tell me that a plam can throw someone off balance and maybe ko them, i have heard that a palm to the chin can snap the neck crippling your opponent or killing them. What is true?

Also if you use a palm upside the jaw or to the eye socket can you ko some as if you used a punch?Also does it leave a noticeable mark like a punch does.

I just know that a palm is more powerful and less painful for you by using it on combos to the punching bag.

[/QUOTE]

the controversy of the palm to nose is that some say a bone shoots through the brain, this is not what happens. there is no bone in the nose, what happens is that the blow causes the brain to hemorrhage which puts pressure on the brain, causing the person to die.
it is possible to snap the neck with teh palm to chin, but the blow has to be very forceful.
you dont want to use a fist in a fight because it is easily broken. use the palm, it is just as effective. if you dont believe me think about this, if you had to strike a brick wall as hard as you could, would you use your knuckles or your palm

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#95776 - 04/01/05 04:42 PM Re: Why I like the palm heel strike
Anonymous
Unregistered


Brick walls have more inertia than the human head. The purpose of the punch is not to shatter the material (bone) but to wobble the brain causing a KO. I do agree that the palm heel is better for head strikes but that doesn't mean that you should discount the normal fist. (Historically the technique was there to make the punch without damaging the hand)

I agree with whoever said apply hard to soft and soft to hard. Use the right tool for the right job.

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