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#95244 - 09/24/03 08:10 PM Re: Offensive Knife Technique
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
My Brain hurts!!!

I concede that I have still a lot to learn, but knives I do know!

KMAN ( not khayman that the guy I know I hope) I too have a copy of the FBI surviving edged weapons video, it is very good, I think it “cuts” through all the bull shit and shows reality.
---------------------------------------------

I know that the Brits and the Yanks live in VERY different worlds. Blades and Guns are still very abhorrent to our ancient civilization, the USA seems to have a terrible weapon culture.
So we in then UK , have very different ideas about SD, ffs, if when attacked I could pull my glock 8756857 high power , laser site, big bore, man killer and drill the bugger, then well that seems a VERY effective form of SD.

But we don’t live in that sort of society, ( thank F*ck!!!!)

I have done so very much with blades in training, yes NOT in reality, but I do know that the attacker with a blade will surprise and cut you before you know what is happening.

MOVE 21 of the combat manual is all well and good, IF YOU CAN SEE THE ATTACK COMING!!!!!!!!!!

ED , if you do come to the UK, I would like to meet up, no BS, or aggression, but perhaps I do miss the point, so I would like to be enlightened……………………..

mark

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#95245 - 09/24/03 10:10 PM Re: Offensive Knife Technique
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Thats sounds good. I'll buy the first round! Ed

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#95246 - 09/26/03 08:18 AM Re: Offensive Knife Technique
kman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 368
Loc: minnesota
Mark,,dont believe all the hype yopu hear about how violent the U.S.A is or our "gun culture" Once you normalize certain demographics we're about the same as G.B. or even Japan. Ya just got to stay away from certain places where bad stuff is likley to occur unless there's an overiding reason to go there.. And in the areas where gun ownership is the highest(rural areas) crime in general and murder in paticular is the lowest.

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#95247 - 09/26/03 09:34 AM Re: Offensive Knife Technique
StillWater Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 101
Oh man, I'm not sure where to start.
From a technical point of veiw, the attack you show seems pretty damn solid to my eyes. A couple of people have expressed the opinion that the throw and/or the following stab to the throat are a bit extraneous. Personally i would disagree, mainly for the reason you've already given which is that a cut to the neck even if it hit the artery (which it's not absolutely garanteed to do)would not be likely to INSTANTLY drop or incapacitate the Victim. If you just cut and leave it at that, he may draw a pistol and start shooting before even realizing that he's been cut. If you do hit the artery, he'll fall soon, but since you're in a position to control him and follow through with the attack, your best bet would be to do so and I think you show a very effective way of doing it.

As far as defending against it...I feel like a hypocrite even offering suggestions because in all honesty, i can look at pictures on the internet and IMAGINE half a dozen ways that could work, but i really dont know that I personally could execute any of them in the time frame neccessary to survive.

That being said' I'll try to contribute from a technical standpoint.
One of the best things mentioned was awareness. If someone is walking up to you with a hand hidden behind their back, go ahead and assume that it isnt for YOUR health.

If you see the knife coming, or even just percieve the assailent's intent to "punch" you, you may step into his left side (or the side of the arm he is using to grab/hold you) and attempt to block or parry his attack from the inside of his knife hand. (i hope that made sense) From there I think the best bet would be to either throw him using the momentum of his attempted cut, or to lock up his left arm and IMMEDIATELY take him to the ground.

Like i said, i dont have much confidence that i could personally pull this off, but i wanted to contribute to the technical aspect of the discussion.

On to a moral position.
If you personally and honestly feel within yourself that putting this type of technique on the internet is a responsible contribution to society or the martial arts ethos or culture, then youve fulfilled the only (imo) moral obligation a person has: "Do I feel that this is appropriate?" If the answer is yes then there you are. To me, this looks more like a technique that should be in a training manual (video or literary) found in a specific setting such as a dojo or military/federal training facility, than one that should be accessible over the internet to the "bad" as well as the "good".
Yes, it is certainly proffitable and absolutely neccessary for serious students of MA to have a realistic understanding of what a knife (or any other weapon) can do, but maybe this should be balanced with the understanding that this may not be the best or most socially productive technique to offer to an unregulable audience.
In this specific instance, the technique given is one of assasination. Period. This is an assasin's M.O. Furthermore, i hate to appear to be prejudice or biggoted, but the first thing i saw when i clicked on the link was "Ju-Jitsu in Afghanistan" and one man being thrown by another man that reminded me of Osama Bin Laden. I know that may be unfair but I'm sorry, that was the first thing that came to my mind. Then i click on "technique of the month" and i see "Walk up to American soldier with knife hidden behind back. Slash artery in American soldier's neck. Throw American soldier to ground and stab his throat."

It literally gave me the shivers.

I'm not trying to imply or suggest in any way that this was the intention of the web site, I'm only offering my personal reaction to it. I hope that you can take it as such.

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#95248 - 09/26/03 03:42 PM Re: Offensive Knife Technique
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Excellent post! The way they sould be.

I agree with you, this is a assasination type of exercise. My goal was to show, mainly the people of this forum, that the knife is really a close quarter weapon. Not the sword that most people choose when practicing their techniques.
So why show it, To make people thimk about their training and it's effectiveness. From a moral issue, if someone uses the technigue prescribed from my web site, to be honest they were going to commit the crime in the first place with out my help. The knife is a very personal weapon. It tkaes a certain mindset to use it.
I have seen many police training films including Innasato's 21' attack. I think they are poor examples of reality and disagree with the training methods. Bottom line the most effective way to deal with this attack or any other attack is to attack the attacker with enough force to hurt him right away. If the attacker was getting hit in the throat or even punched in the face right off the inital grab, I belive his whole game plan would change. When you attack someone you already have a plan in your mind what you are going to do. The only way you are going to change that is to give me something to worry about. When faced with immediate overwelmming vilolence, most people freeze, even for a split second. Thats what you have to do.
Here you see someone approach you and reach out to grab you. First are you aware of your surrondings. Again this is a more military type of attack, but you have to agree most people are ablivious to what goes on around them. How did this guy grab you in the first place?
I would immediatly strike the attacker in the face or throat. Disrupt his game plan. That is the frist step.
The picture of the " Jujutsu in Aphgan" was placed their to show even some squat "towel head" in the middle of nowwhere is practicing grappiling. Arabs are big into Jujutsu. Or similar techs. Ed

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#95249 - 09/27/03 08:58 PM Re: Offensive Knife Technique
StillWater Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 101
I'm curious about the likelyhood of paralysis as a result of a stab or stabbing cut to the spine.
Any thoughts on this?

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#95250 - 09/28/03 02:17 PM Re: Offensive Knife Technique
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 724
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Glasheen:

'The picture of the " Jujutsu in Aphgan" was placed their to show even some squat "towel head" in the middle of nowwhere is practicing grappiling. Arabs are big into Jujutsu.'

Come on Ed, the use of the term 'Towel Head' is quite offensive. This really isnt the place to show your petty small-minded bigotry.

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#95251 - 09/29/03 07:16 AM Re: Offensive Knife Technique
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Sorry but that is what we call them. And besides if you saw what I have seen, you would probably call them something much worse! If you feel better call me a mick bastart. Shit like that does not bother me. Ed

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#95252 - 09/29/03 08:47 AM Re: Offensive Knife Technique
dazzler Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 296
Loc: England
Move of the month?

What benefit exactly does this offer anyone?

If you are switched off and allow a skilled attacker with a knife in range to get a deep slash into the carotid then yes you are gonna regret it.

Is this an attack for us to learn ? Why...?

Is it an attack to learn a defence too ...ok I'll buy a piece of that ...Only in that everyone needs to switch on a little bit more awareness, keep their fence up and dont let anyone into their personal space.
If the woprst comes to the worst then, yup its fight like a mad dog or die...

But I just wondered ..Was the assailant beamed in from star trek??

The issue I have with this is that most things are done for a reason - If its a mugging your more likely to see the knife - the mugger wants an easy victim so will try and subdue you with it.

With a crime of passion ..(I avoid one and can't remember the other) it would be more of a frenzied attack by an unskilled knifer who's grabbed the first thing they can get hold of...) Hence the practise with t-shirts and marker pens.

Ok - for combat troops this might be great - you've got a much higher chance of meeting a skilled knifeman ..again though - if your in the zone shouldn't you be a teeny weeny bit on your guard? those trousers are a bit dodgy for a start

for the rest of us mortals especially the 1000's of IT literate youngsters looking at martial arts I think this indiscriminate posting of killing strikes smacks of irresponsibility and has no place in the public domain.

I dont see any place for racist comments either

D

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#95253 - 09/29/03 11:36 AM Re: Offensive Knife Technique
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Ed.
Kindly don't use terminology like that. There are as you can imagine people of all backgrounds on this forum and though you may not take offence, others do. Depite a rocky start we seem to have reached an understanding as regards the contents of your posts. Please don't create new problems.

Regds
Mr V

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