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#94346 - 08/10/03 02:33 AM Escaping from a grab from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would like peoples opinions on how to deal with the following scenarios:

The first, a guy grabs you from behind round the waist and you have at least one arm free

The second, you are grabbed from behind in the same manner but both arms are trapped

The third as you are grabbed his forearm is across your throat and crushing it

The fourth as above but he also has a knife at your throat

In all cases you are unarmed, there is no accomplice to the attacker and there is no one else around to help you.
Sharon

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#94347 - 08/10/03 09:42 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
It's difficult to fully explain counters on a limited medium such as a forum, but the following are a couple of basics --

Here are the first two scenarios:


1st scenario -

Option one - learn handfighting like it occurs in amateur wrestling. They deal with this exact scenario ALL THE TIME! They are the BEST at telling you how to deal with this situation.

What must happen in every situation like this is that you must lower your center of gravity when it first occurs (drop your hips/pelvis below that of your opponent's).

If your arms are free, work a figure four on his upper most arm and push it straight down. This will help to weaken his grip if not break it completely. From

From there, turn out (while still controlling his arm) and face your attacker. This will cause his arm to bend back painfully and simultaneously apply a shoulder dislocation if done with a fair amount of force (this is an old time catch-wrestling maneuver).

2nd scenario -

Lower your hips as in the 1st scenario. Reach down and grab one of his legs with both hands behind the heel of his foot. This will cause him to lose balance.

From there you can apply a knee-bar or simply get the hell outta there.

In both cases, you must sag your weight low making him have to carry "dead weight" and to use his back muscles instead of his legs.

In either case if you think that he's about to lift you off the ground, lace one of your feet around and behind one of his knees/calves. This will make it next to impossible to lift and carry you. Try it yourself and see the results.

It's difficult if not impossible to fully describe the exact counters here without benefit of pictures, etc. However, you can learn the defenses to these scenarios at any decent BJJ school.

One more word, don't rely on tactics such as groin attacks and headbutting to free you in these situations. The street smart attacker will be waiting for such things and won't give you that opportunity.

3rd scenario -

Any decent judo throw will work in this situation.

4th scenario -

Nice knowing you! Better have some money in your wallet. If not, can I have your stereo?

Train smart, not just hard!

-John

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#94348 - 08/10/03 10:53 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks John,
What you describe in the first scenario is similar to what I have done before, with a slight modification. Because my training partner is a man who is much bigger than me, the only way I can get the armbar to work is if I bend the thumb on the uppermost arm into itself. If I don't, I can lossen his grip by dropping my weight in the way you describe but he can still resist me putting the arm bar on. My arm bars also need much practice.

Like the second one, although again I need to practice it more.

My judo throws suck so again, more practice.

Totally take your point about the groin strikes and headbutts not necessarily being enough.

Agree about giving up my wallet or whatever in the last case.
But what if he wants me to go somewhere with him. I am obviously not going to do that.
i accept that I have virtually NO CHANCE of escaping from this scenario unhurt, but how might I be able to at least escape alive?
Thanks again
Sharon

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#94349 - 08/10/03 07:46 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Anytime Sharon! It's always good posting with you on the forum! It's obvious that you have your head on right and will always do well. Keep it up.

Wrestling and BJJ teach many good defenses to these scenarios as I have mentioned. It's worth even looking into some instructional video to supplement your training in these areas.

Take care!

-John

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#94350 - 08/10/03 10:50 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for the encouragement John.
Are there any videos you would particularly recommend?
Sharon

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#94351 - 08/11/03 03:32 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Anything from Eric Paulson or Matt Thornton
www.ericpaulson.com Eric has a few videos on the market. If you're primarily interested in learning defenses to grappling, his "Best Defense" series is the way to go!
www.straightblastgym.com is Matt Thornton's site. I cannot say enough good things about what they're doing regards training. I may be somewhat biased as I am affilited with them however, I became affiliated for a reason. I would recommend his 1st series "Functional JKD" to anyone not familiar with this camp and it's philosophy.

-John

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#94352 - 08/11/03 03:36 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


Cheers John, will check them out
Sharon

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#94353 - 08/11/03 04:37 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
My bad....it's http://www.erikpaulson.com

I'd misspelled his name. That link should work. I'd recommend ANYTHING by him.

-John

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#94354 - 08/11/03 05:22 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wadowoman:
...Agree about giving up my wallet or whatever in the last case.
But what if he wants me to go somewhere with him. I am obviously not going to do that.
i accept that I have virtually NO CHANCE of escaping from this scenario unhurt, but how might I be able to at least escape alive?
Thanks again
Sharon
[/QUOTE]

Your last scenario is one of my personal nightmares, because I don't see much chance of anything working that won't get you at least cut in the throat area, not the best of outcomes. BTW, John, IMHO, good feedback!
I think the only real alternative is to feign compliance until circumstances change. Particularly in the case of a woman, where if the assailant wants her to go with him, it's because he's very probably interested in sexually assaulting her, he's bound to change his grip in order to achieve his ends (At the very least, he's going to let go to unzip his fly!). That may provide a MUCH better opening.

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#94355 - 08/11/03 06:30 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
madhag Offline
Member

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 150
Loc: Seattle, WA
yikes, the first few scenarios w/o the knife, i would go into a horse stance, or a stance of power that may also put my assailant off balance. With my legs free, scrape his shin and stomp his feet; inflict pain, scream, with my free hand, pinch the nerve on the inner thigh or grab his groin. find an opportunity to loosen, pound his floating ribs or solar plexus with my elbow, follow up with strikes and run like crazy and call the cops.
if he is grabbing me and pulling me backwards, i'd use the momemtum to push him faster and trip his leg, and land with elbow strikes, follow up with more strikes, etc....
With a knife it's complicated. i'd follow him until there is a window of opportunity to escape alive.
if i am grabbed by the throat, drop my head and twist to find a nook in his elbow to loosen my throat so i can breath. then follow with the techniques above.
just my 2 cents

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