FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 27 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
mohdnabeel, sunny, swordy, jerrybarry24, SenseiGregT
22915 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Ed_Morris 4
AndyLA 3
futsaowingchun 2
Zombie Zero 2
Matakiant 2
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
STX Kickboxing Seminar
by Marcus Charles
09/09/14 06:57 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
mindfullness meditation
by
01/06/09 11:27 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Eugue Ryu
by
03/27/07 12:06 AM
Recent Posts
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
Yesterday at 09:05 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Matakiant
09/18/14 07:11 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
09/18/14 06:07 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
09/16/14 04:43 PM
Eugue Ryu
by kolslaw
09/12/14 03:35 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
mindfullness meditation
by log1call
08/31/14 09:43 PM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
Forum Stats
22915 Members
36 Forums
35575 Topics
432495 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#94346 - 08/10/03 02:33 AM Escaping from a grab from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would like peoples opinions on how to deal with the following scenarios:

The first, a guy grabs you from behind round the waist and you have at least one arm free

The second, you are grabbed from behind in the same manner but both arms are trapped

The third as you are grabbed his forearm is across your throat and crushing it

The fourth as above but he also has a knife at your throat

In all cases you are unarmed, there is no accomplice to the attacker and there is no one else around to help you.
Sharon

Top
#94347 - 08/10/03 09:42 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
It's difficult to fully explain counters on a limited medium such as a forum, but the following are a couple of basics --

Here are the first two scenarios:


1st scenario -

Option one - learn handfighting like it occurs in amateur wrestling. They deal with this exact scenario ALL THE TIME! They are the BEST at telling you how to deal with this situation.

What must happen in every situation like this is that you must lower your center of gravity when it first occurs (drop your hips/pelvis below that of your opponent's).

If your arms are free, work a figure four on his upper most arm and push it straight down. This will help to weaken his grip if not break it completely. From

From there, turn out (while still controlling his arm) and face your attacker. This will cause his arm to bend back painfully and simultaneously apply a shoulder dislocation if done with a fair amount of force (this is an old time catch-wrestling maneuver).

2nd scenario -

Lower your hips as in the 1st scenario. Reach down and grab one of his legs with both hands behind the heel of his foot. This will cause him to lose balance.

From there you can apply a knee-bar or simply get the hell outta there.

In both cases, you must sag your weight low making him have to carry "dead weight" and to use his back muscles instead of his legs.

In either case if you think that he's about to lift you off the ground, lace one of your feet around and behind one of his knees/calves. This will make it next to impossible to lift and carry you. Try it yourself and see the results.

It's difficult if not impossible to fully describe the exact counters here without benefit of pictures, etc. However, you can learn the defenses to these scenarios at any decent BJJ school.

One more word, don't rely on tactics such as groin attacks and headbutting to free you in these situations. The street smart attacker will be waiting for such things and won't give you that opportunity.

3rd scenario -

Any decent judo throw will work in this situation.

4th scenario -

Nice knowing you! Better have some money in your wallet. If not, can I have your stereo?

Train smart, not just hard!

-John

Top
#94348 - 08/10/03 10:53 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks John,
What you describe in the first scenario is similar to what I have done before, with a slight modification. Because my training partner is a man who is much bigger than me, the only way I can get the armbar to work is if I bend the thumb on the uppermost arm into itself. If I don't, I can lossen his grip by dropping my weight in the way you describe but he can still resist me putting the arm bar on. My arm bars also need much practice.

Like the second one, although again I need to practice it more.

My judo throws suck so again, more practice.

Totally take your point about the groin strikes and headbutts not necessarily being enough.

Agree about giving up my wallet or whatever in the last case.
But what if he wants me to go somewhere with him. I am obviously not going to do that.
i accept that I have virtually NO CHANCE of escaping from this scenario unhurt, but how might I be able to at least escape alive?
Thanks again
Sharon

Top
#94349 - 08/10/03 07:46 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Anytime Sharon! It's always good posting with you on the forum! It's obvious that you have your head on right and will always do well. Keep it up.

Wrestling and BJJ teach many good defenses to these scenarios as I have mentioned. It's worth even looking into some instructional video to supplement your training in these areas.

Take care!

-John

Top
#94350 - 08/10/03 10:50 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for the encouragement John.
Are there any videos you would particularly recommend?
Sharon

Top
#94351 - 08/11/03 03:32 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Anything from Eric Paulson or Matt Thornton
www.ericpaulson.com Eric has a few videos on the market. If you're primarily interested in learning defenses to grappling, his "Best Defense" series is the way to go!
www.straightblastgym.com is Matt Thornton's site. I cannot say enough good things about what they're doing regards training. I may be somewhat biased as I am affilited with them however, I became affiliated for a reason. I would recommend his 1st series "Functional JKD" to anyone not familiar with this camp and it's philosophy.

-John

Top
#94352 - 08/11/03 03:36 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


Cheers John, will check them out
Sharon

Top
#94353 - 08/11/03 04:37 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
My bad....it's http://www.erikpaulson.com

I'd misspelled his name. That link should work. I'd recommend ANYTHING by him.

-John

Top
#94354 - 08/11/03 05:22 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wadowoman:
...Agree about giving up my wallet or whatever in the last case.
But what if he wants me to go somewhere with him. I am obviously not going to do that.
i accept that I have virtually NO CHANCE of escaping from this scenario unhurt, but how might I be able to at least escape alive?
Thanks again
Sharon
[/QUOTE]

Your last scenario is one of my personal nightmares, because I don't see much chance of anything working that won't get you at least cut in the throat area, not the best of outcomes. BTW, John, IMHO, good feedback!
I think the only real alternative is to feign compliance until circumstances change. Particularly in the case of a woman, where if the assailant wants her to go with him, it's because he's very probably interested in sexually assaulting her, he's bound to change his grip in order to achieve his ends (At the very least, he's going to let go to unzip his fly!). That may provide a MUCH better opening.

Top
#94355 - 08/11/03 06:30 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
madhag Offline
Member

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 150
Loc: Seattle, WA
yikes, the first few scenarios w/o the knife, i would go into a horse stance, or a stance of power that may also put my assailant off balance. With my legs free, scrape his shin and stomp his feet; inflict pain, scream, with my free hand, pinch the nerve on the inner thigh or grab his groin. find an opportunity to loosen, pound his floating ribs or solar plexus with my elbow, follow up with strikes and run like crazy and call the cops.
if he is grabbing me and pulling me backwards, i'd use the momemtum to push him faster and trip his leg, and land with elbow strikes, follow up with more strikes, etc....
With a knife it's complicated. i'd follow him until there is a window of opportunity to escape alive.
if i am grabbed by the throat, drop my head and twist to find a nook in his elbow to loosen my throat so i can breath. then follow with the techniques above.
just my 2 cents

Top
#94356 - 08/11/03 11:31 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
Tengu51 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/09/03
Posts: 361
Loc: Ellicott, MD, USA
Hello. I'm new but I once saw a great defense for a rear grab with your hands free...First sink your weight to keep balance, then turn into a rear elbow to the head, if there isn't enough space to strike you can still push the head back to unbalance. As the attacker is knocked back, step around behind both of his legs, usually at this point the attacker is worried so much about his balance that he has let go, leaving him belly up and his groin wide open.

Top
#94357 - 08/12/03 02:31 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


Magon and Madhag,

I can see why you say you would go with him and look for an opportunity to escape, such as when he changes his grip, it seems to make sense doesn't it.

However a policewoman I know who does self defence for women holds the opinion that going anywhere with an attacker is the last thing we should do.

She says it is better to be cut in the street where there is a slim chance of rescue/discovery than be taken somewhere and suffer untold horrors for days or weeks or even months and then be killed anyway. She and her colleagues have dealt with many cases like this, usually sexual and control freak orientated.
I posted a thread about this on these boards and many people here agreed that we should not comply in this way.

Assuming we accept this advice, what now? How can we at least minimise our injuries so there is a chance of at least being alive when we are discovered? Or can't we?

If a student asked me this question, I would have to say I honestly don't know what would be the best thing to do.


Welcome to Tengus.
Sharon

[This message has been edited by wadowoman (edited 08-12-2003).]

Top
#94358 - 08/12/03 09:15 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Sharon: Yes, in fact what you relate seems to be standard advice from police for that type of scenario. But it leaves me with the impression that they're thinking about the "least common denominator", the untrained person. In that case, resisting in place is probably the best of a bad situation. I was thinking more along the lines of YOURSELF, someone who has trained to fight, and is willing to resist. In that case I THINK (I can't offer concrete examples, nor can I cite from practical experience, so take it with a grain of salt) that mock compliance buys you time for the situation to improve. This either by the attacker making a mistake, or by you coming up with a viable strategy.
I would also THINK that mock compliance shouldn't be open ended. It has to stop fairly soon. For me, I think the point of no return is when the attacker is about to get me into HIS environment (Such as his vehicle or the site he's chosen for whatever is on his mind). Not incidentally, that's the point where an opening is probable, since he'll have to manipulate stuff around.
If you feel like it, run this by your LEO sources. I'd be interested in their feedback, since I admit I'm speculating.

[This message has been edited by MAGon (edited 08-12-2003).]

Top
#94359 - 08/12/03 09:21 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Sharon: Yes, in fact what you relate seems to be standard advice from police for that type of scenario. But it leaves me with the impression that they're thinking about the "least common denominator", the untrained person. In that case, resisting in place is probably the best of a bad situation. I was thinking more along the lines of YOURSELF, someone who has trained to fight, and is willing to resist. In that case I THINK (I can't offer concrete examples, nor can I cite from practical experience, so take it with MORE than a grain of salt) that mock compliance buys you time for the situation to improve. This either by the attacker making a mistake, or by you coming up with a viable strategy.
I would also THINK that mock compliance shouldn't be open ended. It has to stop fairly soon. For me, I think the point of no return is when the attacker is about to get me into HIS environment (Such as his vehicle or the site he's chosen for whatever is on his mind). Not incidentally, that's the point where an opening is probable, since he'll have to manipulate stuff around.
If you feel like it, run this by your LEO sources. I'd be interested in their feedback, since I admit I'm speculating.

P.S.: Beyond that, LIKE YOU, if I was asked how to deal with this type of attack, I'd also have to say that I DON'T KNOW! I suspect John Kogas' analysis was, as usual, on the money: Nice knowing ya!!!



[This message has been edited by MAGon (edited 08-12-2003).]

Top
#94360 - 08/12/03 02:08 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


Magon,
I believe you are spot on with the mock compliance, and we practice this in training.
I also believe you are right about this compliance not being open ended.

Thanks for your input
Sharon

Top
#94361 - 08/12/03 02:59 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wadowoman:
Magon,
I believe you are spot on with the mock compliance, and we practice this in training.
I also believe you are right about this compliance not being open ended.

Thanks for your input
Sharon
[/QUOTE]

Sharon: You're welcome.
I'd still be curious to know what your woman LEO/ self defense instructor thinks. Any chance of that?

Cheers.

Top
#94362 - 08/12/03 05:33 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
In all these scenarios we can assume that the attackers intentions are NOT playful?

"The first, a guy grabs you from behind round the waist and you have at least one arm free."

Drop weight. Either rip the grip apart by bending/breaking fingers. Applying a thumb or wrist lock to release grip.

Once grip is weakened/removed, twist free. Strike or move away.

"The second, you are grabbed from behind in the same manner but both arms are trapped."

I've never been sure about the "Stamp & Scrape" ideas we were shown at work. Drop your weight. Break grip by damaging fingers. Reverse headbutt.

"The third as you are grabbed his forearm is across your throat and crushing it"

Grab restraining arm with both yours. Pulling the arm in and down. The idea is that you are using more muscles than the attacker. You should be able to relieve some of the pressure on your throat.

Twist outwards (in same direction as elbow) simultaneously continue with further strikes to areas of choice.

Not being a grappler, I wonder if would be possible to perform a throw from this position? Theoretically your opponents weight should be forward. Any thoughts?

Another is to fient a strike to the face, same side as elbow, allowing your other arm to extend forward. Drive with your hips with an elbow strike. Don't forget to extend the first arm again, coz its going to come back as hard as the first elbow strike. Repeat as necassary.

These two I have used to great effect (and surprise). I am unsure about the effects against particularly well built or fat opponents.

"The fourth as above but he also has a knife at your throat"

Similar to as above. Much more dangerous, never tried it, but my theory is your grip should be sufficient to reduce the risk being cut, unless the knife is pointy end in that is. Then I'm with JK.

As with all of these, as has been suggested, distraction and disguise will go a long way to loosen grips and lower awareness of an opponent. All attacks must be explosive.

Budo.

Top
#94363 - 08/18/03 01:31 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by MAGon:
Sharon: You're welcome.
I'd still be curious to know what your woman LEO/ self defense instructor thinks. Any chance of that?

Cheers.

[/QUOTE]

Magon,
I spoke to two of my students about this, one a policeman and the other an ex policewoman.
Both agreed that mock compliance could buy some time, but as you suggested this mock compliance needs to end soon, within a few seconds if possible (before you find yourself in a car or a dissused building etc).
Sharon

Top
#94364 - 08/18/03 10:13 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
ChangLab Offline
Sleepy-ninja

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 312
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
I personally think that to effectivly defend against a criminal you'd want to think like one.(or atleast have some idea of what they might be thinking) maby theres a way to find a criminal that's incarcerated, "found god", and is willing to talk about why they were caught.
Granted theorizing is great, but why not get it from the horses mouth.

As with the passivity till you get to the threshold of "his" enviornment, I would think that an "experienced" psycho would expect some resistance at this point.

I'm not suggesting you go make buddies with the nearest criminal you can find, but you could look up prisoners on the internet, write letters and see if one of them has begun the repenting process and is willing to discuss thier experiences with you and maby you can find some common weaknessess.


just a thought........

Top
#94365 - 08/18/03 11:45 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
We practice defenses from these positions all the time in my aikido dojo. If you have the option I'd talk to an aikido sensei in your area. If you explain your concerns with an emphasis on self defense I'm sure she could show you some aikido tactics, some more easily learnt than others.

Joe

Top
#94366 - 08/18/03 12:27 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
ChangLab Offline
Sleepy-ninja

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 312
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
An example of this is:
when 2 football teams(english or american)
Compete, they usually watch films of the opposing team to find strengths and weaknesses.
or boxers do the same thing.
My idea is :"why not apply that to street fighting?"
there are what I'd call serious misconceptions about why an attacker will choose you as a victim or how to diffuse an escelating situation
thoughts?

Top
#94367 - 08/18/03 01:21 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
madhag Offline
Member

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 150
Loc: Seattle, WA
i'd be very careful with a knife up against my jugular, assuming that he would kill me. which i why i would not be so quick to react in this scenario as others. sometimes we have to bide time. i can pretend to be frightened and helples, he would assume i'm weak, and his ego feeling pretty big from frightening a poor little woman. he would start to let down his guard, at some point, his knife has to be at a less advantageous position to maneuver me. i have to be extremely aware for that brief window opportunity to pounce back and escape. but the sooner to escape the better.
in the meantime i'll do my best to avoid getting into that situation.

Top
#94368 - 08/18/03 01:24 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChangLab:
I personally think that to effectivly defend against a criminal you'd want to think like one.(or atleast have some idea of what they might be thinking) maby theres a way to find a criminal that's incarcerated, "found god", and is willing to talk about why they were caught.
Granted theorizing is great, but why not get it from the horses mouth.

As with the passivity till you get to the threshold of "his" enviornment, I would think that an "experienced" psycho would expect some resistance at this point.

I'm not suggesting you go make buddies with the nearest criminal you can find, but you could look up prisoners on the internet, write letters and see if one of them has begun the repenting process and is willing to discuss thier experiences with you and maby you can find some common weaknessess.


just a thought........
[/QUOTE]

Good idea, but there's an easier way. It just so happens that the FBI's Behavioral Sciences Unit did exactly what you suggest. Some of these guys have published books on their experiences after they retired from the Bureau. They're fascinating (In a sick way). There's only so much of this stuff I can stomach, so I can't claim to have read them all. I DID read 3 co- written by John Douglas, one of the pioneers of the unit. His focus seems to be PRECISELY what John Q. Public should beware of as regards these predators.
BTW, one of the things I took away from the books is that, since it's a power/ control need these individuals have, meek compliance strokes their egos. It would seem that they'd be less vigilant in that state. It isn't an exact science, but I'd opt for mock compliance as a general strategy. The one thing I WOULDN't do is enter their environment. Many prepare to the point of having a rape/ torture "kit" ready in advance, complete with means of restraint.



[This message has been edited by MAGon (edited 08-18-2003).]

Top
#94369 - 08/18/03 02:33 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChangLab:
there are what I'd call serious misconceptions about why an attacker will choose you as a victim or how to diffuse an escelating situation
thoughts?

[/QUOTE]

I'd like to hear what misconceptions you know of and what things we should be looking for or indeed, what criminals look for.

Budo.

Top
#94370 - 08/18/03 02:38 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MAGon:
The one thing I WOULDN't do is enter their environment. Many prepare to the point of having a rape/ torture "kit" prepared in advance, complete with means of restraint.

[/QUOTE]

Good point. But one of the major problems is that the criminal doesn't necassarily have an "environment". There are very few that wait around in their own areas. You will find them prowling in amongst their prey or waiting for the right one to come along.

Is there a site with these FBI insights on them?

Budo.

Top
#94371 - 08/18/03 03:41 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
szorn Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 88
Loc: USA
In real self-defense the tactics should be simple and easily applied, don't attempt anything that seems too complex for such a situation.

Scenario #1- the hand is free so use it to grab the groin, gouge at the eyes, or something just as vicious (possible back elbow to head and neck) while stomping his feet and thrusting you hips backward into his hips to disrupt his balance. The back headbutt can also be effective but be extremely careful not to knock yourself out. Once you feel his grip weaken you might attempt to grab and dislocate fingers as you move to separate yourself from the attacker.

Scenario #2- same as above but now the hands are pinned. Focus on trying to get the hands behind you to grab the groin while using foot stomps and hips thrust to break the balance. Follow up as in scenario #1.

Scenarios #3- as he attempts to choke you try to drop your chin into your chest. This will provide a block between your throat and his forearm. While doing this grab his arm and pull downward with both hands as you stomp on his feet (violently) and thrust your hips backwards. If you get an exposed finger during the struggle attempt to dislocate it. As in scenario #1 attempt to escape as soon as you feel the opportunity.

Scenario #4- Same as scenario #3 except maintain the grab on the arm and pin it to your chest to prevent the knife from cutting your throat. If secured properly the attacker will momentarily be unable to cut the throat which provides a split second to viciously stomp and hip thrust as before. Maintain your grip on the knife arm as you attempt to turn and face the attacker so that you can viciously knee toward his groin, bladder, and upper legs. Do not let go of the knife limb til the attacker has dropped the knife or is disabled. Once either of these takes place, escape to safety.

I agree that dropping the body weight may work but if the atacker happens to be stronger than you he will just carry you off or slam you into a tree, wall, or other nearby object. The hip thrust works a little more effectively because it physically moves the attackers hips and disrupts his balance plus causes impact to the bladder/groin area which can cause minor pain and discomfort.

Steve http://www.geocities.com/combatives

[This message has been edited by szorn (edited 08-18-2003).]

[This message has been edited by szorn (edited 08-18-2003).]

[This message has been edited by szorn (edited 08-18-2003).]

Top
#94372 - 08/21/03 04:17 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
So what would an attacker look for in a potential victim?

What are the rules for de-esculation?

Budo.

Top
#94373 - 08/22/03 09:55 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
szorn Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 88
Loc: USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by judderman:
So what would an attacker look for in a potential victim?

What are the rules for de-esculation?

Budo.
[/QUOTE]

An attacker looks for easy prey, simple as that. They look for weaknesses in the attitude, body language, etc. As examples of easy prey: looking at the ground while walking (not paying attention to the world around them), walking slowly and hunched over at the shoulders (as though depressed), looking around bewildered as though lost or in a new environment (commonly seen in tourists), walking alone in secluded areas, flashing large amounts of money when shopping, etc. etc. The list could go on and on but this gives you an idea of what attackers look for. The simple solution- don't act like a victim, don't think like a victim, don't look like a victim.

There aren't rules for de-escalation per se. The simple solution to de-escalation is to avoid the situations in the first place. This can be done by understanding what attackers look for and making sure you don't fit the profile. Even with all the preparation in the world you can still find yourself in a bad situation. At that point the best solution is to escape. If that doesn't work then move on to verbal and psychological de-escalation tactics. These are used for one of two reasons, 1) to netralize the situtaion by getting the attacker to back off or 2) to get the attacker to drop his psycholgical guard so that you can pre-emptively attack and escape.

Steve http://www.geocities.com/combatives

Top
#94374 - 08/22/03 07:59 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
szorn, what type of car is that on your homepage, I am bit of a car enthusiast, and it looks very similar to a Australian Holden-GM VL-Commodore, due to the shape of the side skirts.

Off topic, but hey, I looked at your site.

Top
#94375 - 08/25/03 09:55 AM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
szorn Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 88
Loc: USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by joesixpack:
szorn, what type of car is that on your homepage, I am bit of a car enthusiast, and it looks very similar to a Australian Holden-GM VL-Commodore, due to the shape of the side skirts.

Off topic, but hey, I looked at your site.
[/QUOTE]


LOL, I guess any discussion is better than none. That is a Pontiac Grand Prix.

Steve http://www.geocities.com/combatives

Top
#94376 - 08/26/03 05:53 PM Re: Escaping from a grab from behind
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
On a self defence course with MA group, we trained a few of these scenarios..

Here's one I did:
We were sent into a house where our suited up [full padded body suit, groin protector etc with helmet & face shield] instructor would attack us at any time. I was told to stand in a room with eyes closed until he chose to attack. We had to respond to the attack and were allowed to give him the works, we could do anything, knees, elbows, kick and punch as hard as we could, no holds barred and we had to do it like it was a matter of life or death. The referee ensured there was no cheating and that we stopped when we were supposed to.

He tackled me from behind, in a running rugby style tackle, pinned both arms to my sides and then lifted me off the ground!

The only thing I could do was kick for his legs, stomp at them, use my elbows and wriggle about a lot until I freed one arm. Then I managed to turn and started boxing his ears with palm heel strikes to the side of the head. Once I got my other arm free I gave it to him in the face as well and managed to knock him to the ground after several hard ones. During this time I also managed to get in several good groin kicks.... and a few to the lower legs

The referee had to drag me off before I really started to hurt him.... [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

The thing is with all of these attack scenarios, you have a split second where your brain goes "eek! I'm being attacked what do I do???!!" - before the conditioned training mode switches on and you react. Getting the reaction time shorter is the key to surviving.

One major thing I've learnt from this is to always keep alert and keep my hands high so they will never get trapped like this again!

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >


Moderator:  Cord, Dedicated1, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga