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#94211 - 08/17/03 04:59 PM Re: Strangles and Chokes
Raven Offline

Registered: 04/13/03
Posts: 549
Loc: Sin City
I don't know if someone already posted this little trick but if they did I'm sorry my eyes too tired to read all the responses
Anyways this is something my dad taught me, you know when you throwing water on your face..u know how you `cup` your hands in order to get the water..well when someone is choking you from the front, you `cup` your hands and then slam them on you strangler's will stun to a high degree (the harder the slam the better) Its hard to explain in a paragraph with no if you want to know more about it just contact me at my email. If you want to try it out go to someone you really care much for and try it not to soft and not to hard..i think it can actully kill, i have no idea how it works but it works.

#94212 - 08/17/03 05:23 PM Re: Strangles and Chokes
Rand Offline

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 338
hey i just did this friday!

ok we were sparring and my friend james happened to get me in a choke hold from behind on the ground, i got my hands in far enough near his wrist on the arm that was around my neck and threw my chin down and slid out from him.

also we tried it again when we where kneeling and i lifted him up on my back and flipped him over.

atleast it seemed to me that the way you go wrong is if you panic

#94213 - 08/17/03 06:42 PM Re: Strangles and Chokes

gullwing/scarf choke- if they do not do it properly,meaning they are not cheek to cheek with you or have forehead in your ear, simply twist body so right arm goes back towards them, you are now facing them.

#94214 - 08/17/03 06:56 PM Re: Strangles and Chokes

the ear slap will not kill anyone. what it does is force air into the ears, causing an increase of pressure against the ear drums.It is very painful,I have used this against someone with success.

#94215 - 08/17/03 07:00 PM Re: Strangles and Chokes

rand, have your friend grapevine you or wrap his legs around you when he chokes you from behind on ground or kneeling-flipping him will not work, neither will turning into him. Try this and work out another escape.I suggest this because bjj teaches grapevining when you have the back.

#94216 - 08/21/03 10:07 AM Re: Strangles and Chokes
the504mikey Offline

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
The gull wing choke... scary stuff.

We practice two escapes from it, depending on the situation:

Case 1: The attacker does not take you to the ground, but applies the choke standing. The response here is to do a technique we describe as "catching rain". Turn the arm that is up (the one the opponent came under) palm up as if catching rain in it, then step "through" your opponent's weak direction (45 degree axis) and drop your body weight through the arm down and behind him. If you succeed in breaking his posture, he will be thrown. Good luck.

Case 2: The attacker breaks your posture or takes you down to the ground-- when we apply this choke, we usually throw the person to the ground and allow their weight combined with ours to multiply the force of the strangle. It's pretty unpleasant. Anyway, in the event the attacker breaks your posture or throws you your only option AFAIK is to attempt a sacrifice throw. I am not comfortable explaining how they work for a few reasons. First, I am not competent enough at them to feel like I could explain the important functional points. Second, they tend to be fairly complex, dynamic techniques that change a lot according to the circumstances. Third, I feel they are dangerous to practice without a qualified instructor and a partner who falls well enough to keep from getting his neck broken.

Still, it seems to me like whenever we go chasing after an escape from a "proper hold" or particularly hairy situation, sacrifice throws tend to come up. I am just starting to learn them, and it's a different world for me. I encourage everyone who is not familiar with them to study them.

I recently saw a 160 pound guy in my class grab a 260 pounder by the lapel and snatch him backwards over his (the little guy's) head, throwing him about six feet. He claims he feels no more weight than "a six pack of coke" when doing this, and that the sacrifice throw generates tremendous leverage as well as the right relationship between their centers of gravity. I know the other guy didn't tank or take a dive, because we are mostly hard headed and don't do that kind of stuff. So, sacrifice throws are neat. Find someone who understands them and get to work!

PS: For the self defense application, rather than launching someone six feet, you hold onto him, directing him face first into the ground. This does a couple of things-- there is a lot of impact, you keep access to him for control, further action, and you use him to break your own fall so that the sacrifice part doesn't become more of a sacrifice than you bargained for. The guys in my class who are good at these things can gently set themselves down while launching you like a rocket...

#94217 - 08/21/03 10:26 AM Re: Strangles and Chokes
MAGon Offline

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Glasheen:
...If you get chocked from the rear while standing, some people may go for the seionage throw. This may not work fro everyone. Instead move your hips out and allow yourself to get into a standing headlock. Now you can perform your headlock escape technique. Easy.Ed[/QUOTE]

Funny, when I started reading through the thread the counter that came to mind was drop the chin/ raise shoulders to avoid the full choke, loosen the attacker up with a strike or two (Elbows, shin rake, WHATEVER was vulnerable) then, if succesful, DROPPING while grabbing the arm and performing a seoi- otoshi (A little more leverage and unbalancing than seoi- inage, because of the drop). Nobody mentioned throws and I was wondering if I was "reality challenged". Thanks for the validation!!!

#94218 - 08/21/03 10:50 AM Re: Strangles and Chokes
ChangLab Offline

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 312
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
wouldn't a gull wing choke be relativly easy to spin out of as it was being applied (not after)
as soon as someone started putting thier arm under mine, I'd spin out
or maby I'm missing something?

#94219 - 08/21/03 12:33 PM Re: Strangles and Chokes

Changlab, you are not missing anything. The best case scenario is always to act before the choke is fully on.
We are discussing worse case scenario where the choke is on before we have a chance to do anything.
Mikey, thanks for the suggestion, I will try it at the first opportunity.
I know a few people who are experienced at breakfalling, I will ask them to explain the sacrifice throw so I can try the escape from that position. (I understand why it could be dangerous following instructions on this). from a forum).

#94220 - 08/23/03 07:35 PM Re: Strangles and Chokes
Raven Offline

Registered: 04/13/03
Posts: 549
Loc: Sin City
Okay, I did some more research on why the ear slap works...and nekogami13 is right the ear slap SHOULD NOT be able to kill anybody but i'm not going to say it 'never will kill anyone' there are freak accidents or just associated things to cause death. However it can cause a perforated eardrum...
A perforated eardrum is a hole or rupture in the eardrum, a thin membrane that separates the ear canal and the middle ear. The medical term for the eardrum is tympanic membrane. The middle ear is connected to the nose by the Eustachian tube, which equalizes pressure in the middle ear and the atmospheric air.

The causes of perforated eardrum are usualy from trauma or infection. A perforated eardrum can occur:-
* If the ear is struck squarely with an open hand as in a slap.
* With a skull fracture (after road traffic accidents)
* After a sudden explosion (e.g. bomb blast)
* If an object (Such as a bobby pin, ear bud, sticks or keys) is pushed too far into the ear canal.
* As a result of hot liquids or acid entering the ear canal
Middle ear infections may cause pain, hearing loss and spontaneous rupture (tear) of the eardrum resulting in a perforation. In this circumstance, there may be infected or bloody drainage from the ear. In medical terms, this is called otitis media with perforation.
Most eardrum perforations heal spontaneously with weeks after rupture, although some may take up to several months. During the healing process the ear must be protected from water and trauma. Those eardrum perfor-ations, which do not heal on their own, may require surgery.

Effects on Hearing from perforated ear drum
Usually, the larger the perforation, the greater the loss of hearing. The location of the hole (perforation) in the eardrum also effects the degree of hearing loss. If severe trauma (e.g skull fracture) disrupts the bones in the middle ear which transmit sound or causes injury to the inner ear structures, the loss of hearing may be quite severe.
If the perforated eardrum is due to a sudden traumatic or explosive event, the loss of hearing can be great and ringing in the ear (tinnitus) may be severe. In this case the hearing usually returns partially, and the ringing diminishes in a few days. Chronic infection as a result of the perforation can cause major hearing loss.

So a slap to an ear will 'shock' or 'stun' and might screw up the equilibrium for a few seconds of the person after the slap (Precious seconds to attack)

P.S. Since I do not want to be charged with plagirism I'm going to put the source of info. for the 'perforated eardrum'

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