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#93776 - 07/05/03 01:10 PM Re: Stupid thing to do
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
So YORK KARATE,

Your advice is summarised as the following:-

If we find our selves in imminent danger of being attacked, AND CANNOT DRIVE AWAY!
Sit in the car and wait for it to happen, and then try to defend your self?

Sharon did say that the guy was “blocking my path and got out of his vehicle.”

I always thought that the first rule of surviving a violent encounter was to run away/escape from it.
How do you propose to do this in the situation that Sharon describes?

You give the advice “you should never enter a situation you can’t control” Sharon was already in that situation she blocked in.

I consider a skilled MA far more likely to be able to level the playing field out side the car, perhaps YORK you are a better fighter than runner, or perhaps you can defend your self sitting down in a small metal box, better than you can standing up in the open, however I suspect what is more likely is that you have very little experience of this sort of situation and you quote the aged and very subjective “self defence for all manual.”

Mark

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#93777 - 07/05/03 01:21 PM Re: Stupid thing to do
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Mark, calm down, no need to get upset.

We are all entitled to our opinions.

I agree what Sharon did was a bad idea, BUT, it WAS a lesson learned, no?

It depends completely on the situation. Could you see the attackers intent? Did he have a weapon? Could you back away?

There is no universal answer, there are just too many variables.

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#93778 - 07/05/03 03:02 PM Re: Stupid thing to do
York Karate Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 132
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
My my Mark temper temper and no reason to YELL, all I did was disagree with you and lay out some solid reasons I didn’t insult your mother for gosh sakes.

First Sharon herself said it was a stupid idea and stated “as a lone woman, the sensible thing to do would have been to lock the doors and use the mobile phone to call for help. So first off I might have used the mobile phone.

Failing that I may have tried the reverse gear in the car.

Finally I am not quoting any “manual” rather I am was using the best weapon I have my mind – rather than emotional based responses and basing my comments on a great deal of personal experience as well of experiences from students.

Emotion plays a major in your ability to successfully respond to a situation and you will think more clearly retain the ability to react intelligently and with appropriate force by reaming calm.

One final question to a martial artist was the cause of this situation really worth endangering your life over? I don’t see it that way when instead of getting out to escalate one could have used a phone or driven away in revere, or perhaps over a curb.

Just my humble opinion because I would rather walk away than fight any day because on a fight you can never ever predict the outcome – remember the 12 gage ?

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#93779 - 07/05/03 05:26 PM Re: Stupid thing to do
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Wow, york karate, you are very smug. Congrats.
Worst case scenario: the guy had a gun. How would staying in the car have helped?
Second worst case scenario: He had a knife. Well, I can break a car window with a punch. Most people could. Then you are in a little metal box while some guy tries to stab you.
As far as the cell phone option, unless you are Lois Lane, who do you know who could have gotten to your car before the guy did?
The fact is, the only way you would have been safer staying in the car was if:
1. You were in a position to drive away (not blocked in)
2. You had a gun (Not likely)
3. You were on your way to attack dog training with your three dobermans (incidentally, take your dog with you whenever possible. Then it's two on one.)
The way I see it, you handled yourself well.

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#93780 - 07/05/03 09:46 PM Re: Stupid thing to do
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
York & Ender,

As I have often stated, the arguments on this forum are something I enjoy.

It is NEVER personal, just fun.

I welcome any opinion and give mine up for dissection.

Please don’t ever be offended by my posts, its all done in the spirit of the forum.

How could it ever be personal, I don’t know either of you!

BUT YOU ARE BOTH A COUPLE OF WALLYS AND TOTALLY WRONG. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Regards,

Mark

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#93781 - 07/06/03 01:36 PM Re: Stupid thing to do
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mark:
York & Ender,

As I have often stated, the arguments on this forum are something I enjoy.

It is NEVER personal, just fun.

I welcome any opinion and give mine up for dissection.

Please don’t ever be offended by my posts, its all done in the spirit of the forum.

How could it ever be personal, I don’t know either of you!

BUT YOU ARE BOTH A COUPLE OF WALLYS AND TOTALLY WRONG. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Regards,

Mark

[/QUOTE]

Mark, were you poking your tongue out and saying "ner ner ne-ner ner!" whilst posting this?

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#93782 - 07/06/03 01:49 PM Re: Stupid thing to do
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
In fairness to Sharon's situation, it really easy to sit here and say "Oh Yes, that was silly, wasn't it?", but hands up all the people who have been in slight prang in a car and got out the car to check the damage?

Exactly.

Lets face it, it's not only lone women who are at risk in this situation. Anyone is.

I don't know what the best thing to do in this situation is, perhaps pretend you are foreign and gesticulate a lot, whilst sat in your metal and glass box?

Perhaps getting out and fronting the person, hoping that he will capitulate to your dominant stance and demeanor?

Its up to you. Either way, you can count on two things:

1) the other person will be highly stressed, thus increasing their potential toward aggression and/or violence.

2)when you tell your story to someone, them will probably say what you did was stupid.

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Budo.

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#93783 - 07/07/03 10:31 AM Re: Stupid thing to do
ChangLab Offline
Sleepy-ninja

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 312
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
Hello again all, here is my 2 cents
In my city we had riots a few years back, it had me thinking about what to do if I'm in a car wearing a seatbelt and one or more attackers approach(rember I'm thinking of a riot or mob situation) here's what I came up with maby it'll help
first I never follow closely enough to get trapped at a light. If I pull up to a light or stop sign, I always leave 1/2 car length between myself and the car infront of me
but only 1/2 a car length just enough so that noone else can squeeze in rember that all you have to do is roll the car 3 feet and the attacker is now out of range(unless he/she has a gun) so just by moving the car a few feet you can thwart any attack, you might suffer some damage to your car but then you get thier liscence plate # and
report them to the police.
some people think of keeping weapons in thier cars
if it makes you feel safer keep a stick, mag light or mace or something in youre car fine. but don't think of using it while strapped in youre car it'll most likely be taken away from you and used against you, or in the case of mace or a spray irratant,what if the wind is blowing, you just maced yourself and cannot drive away or see
so never try to use a weapon in your car.
if it is life and death like the attacker has a weapon (knife, gun etc.)USE THE CAR AS A WEAPON yes a car is a weapon like the drunk driving commercials say
but not unless it's life and death
just stay in youre car if someone approaches roll foreward several feet, if they come up again roll back..

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#93784 - 01/22/04 09:37 AM Re: Stupid thing to do
Shaolinboy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 256
Loc: England
Hi all

This post reminds me that happened to me some years ago! I was in the pub with 3 of my female friends all laughing and joking as you might expect of people in their early 20s.
Well anyway one of my friends accidentally knocked this guy's jacket of his chair, she apologised but he took offense. I guess he thought she wasn't being genuine and got very abusive. It didn't help the fact that my other female friend being immature started grinning at him which he didn't like but also she must have thought he was only joking.
I did feel scared because even though he must have been in his late 50s he was very threatening and although I had just started training in Martial Arts I didn't feel confident enough to do anything but just keep my head down and drink my drink! But afterwards felt ashamed for not defending my friends. I don't know what I could have said to him, in a non confrontational way to deal with him! I certainly didn't want to make things worst by punching him out!
The way I see it it would have been silly to escalate things over such a minor thing!
I even remember one time in a club this guy gestered for me to move from his spot. He didn't ask me nicely or say anything but just non verbally gestered for me to move. Me not wanting to take matters further, I just complied.

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#93785 - 01/23/04 04:38 AM Re: Stupid thing to do
charles mckey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 1368
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mark:
I consider a skilled MA far more likely to be able to level the playing field out side the car, [/QUOTE]

I'd bet that most of the time, that's true. Although there are cases where the skilled MA beats on the other person, who, not wanting to be humiliated, then levels the playing field further by coming back with a tyre iron or a screwdriver. (What was the blokes name that was done for stabbing that kickboxer in a road rage incident - was it Kenneth Nye?)

I guess the problem is that no one knows what variety of numpty they're dealing with when these decisions (reverse and drive off at speed, get out of the car...) have to be made. You could argue that someone willing to cut you off and force you to stop is going to drive after you if you do attempt to get out of there anyway.

I'm not going to second guess what you did Sharon, but I'm glad both parties (well, ok, you [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] ) walked away unharmed.

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