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#93454 - 06/24/03 11:29 AM Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Since this is a passionate topic, What knife do you prefer to carry?

I carry a Benchmade 9050 or a Gerber Yari. Ed

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#93455 - 06/24/03 12:31 PM Re: Knives
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
None

JohnL

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#93456 - 06/24/03 01:19 PM Re: Knives
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Also none as in the UK its illegal to carry any bladed instrument that has a fixed or lockable blade or indeed any bladed instrument with a blade over 3 inches long without lawful excuse. Even a scalpel which is within the strict limits would require justification if you were caught carrying it in a public place. That being said and for the purposes of the question, a Cold Steel Tanto or a Spyderco Gunting.

Regds
Mr V

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#93457 - 06/24/03 01:57 PM Re: Knives
Fighting Dwarf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 322
Loc: UK
Also none. Quite apart from the legal issues, the obvious disadvantages of carrying a knife (or any other weapon) are 1) it means you have to be prepared to use it, which I'm not; and 2) it gives an unarmed attacker something to take and use against you.

-Charlie

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#93458 - 06/24/03 03:21 PM Re: Knives
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
I often wonder about this.

I understand the logic of carrying an equaliser, but I also wonder does such a thing increase the tendancy towards aggression?

Is someone carrying a weapon going to be less likely to use other forms of defense?

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I can't be arsed to post a new topic.

Budo.

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#93459 - 06/24/03 03:54 PM Re: Knives
xerxes Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 515
Loc: Georgia, USA
Judderman,

Does a police officer who is carrying a pistol have a greater tendency toward aggression just because he has a weapon? Not necessarily. Does his carrying of a baton make him more aggressive? Not necessarily. The same concept holds true for a civilian as well. It is all a matter of the personality of the individual. The weapon doesn't "hypnotise" someone into being aggressive.

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#93460 - 06/24/03 03:55 PM Re: Knives
Anonymous
Unregistered


also none due to law in UK.
Sharon

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#93461 - 06/24/03 04:08 PM Re: Knives
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
While carrying a weapon does not make you more aggresive, it does create an increased probability of escalation.

ie;
Guy 1 starts shouting at guy 2.
Guy 2 shouts back.
Guy 1 adopts an aggresive pose ready to hit.
Guy 2 does the same.
Guy 1 pulls his knife.
Guy 2 pulls his knife
Guy 1's friends pull their knives.
etc.

While not having a knife may not be the best when the other guy has one, at least it can help to prevent the escalation of force.
In addition, regardless of who pulls the knife first, when the police arrest all concerned, it won't matter, everyones going to jail for a long time.

Johnl

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#93462 - 06/24/03 06:11 PM Re: Knives
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I vary. I see both sides of the arguement on this one. I SOMETIMES carry a knife in an ankle sheathe (6 inch hunting knife) as a last resort tactic, and carry it when I have to go through rough areas (and when its unavoidable to NOT go through these areas), but I also see that this can invite trouble and can possibly escalate violence.

Then again, as its been said, Id rather be tried by 12 than buried by 6. If push comes to shove, and all other options expended, Ill pull it out if I have it. It's been talked about that defense against an armed attacker is damn HARD, and when ehs got a few friends? I'd say thats asituation where, if i cant run, and im unarmed, and theyre all armed, Id say thats a damn desperate situation. In which case, I would rather take a few of them with me or take a hostage if I can.

It may be illegal, but it just might keep me alive.

I'm not a violent person, but I trust my own judgement, and thats all any of us really have to rely on.

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#93463 - 06/24/03 10:32 PM Re: Knives
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
I have two knives I carry regularly. One is a Spyderco Delica. Nice, cheap, leagal, and cuts through steel cable (ONCE.) The other is a Buck Crosslock. Also inexpensive, legal, but don't know about steel cables. I have carried a Cold Steel Bushmaster while camping, and an Air force vietnam era survival type knife (it looks like a short K-Bar with a deeper belly. Great knife) in the field. Fighting Dwarf, I applaud you for your first point. JohnL, please just post to the huge threads that already cover this, Ender, I hope you live long enough and avoid prison long enough to stop being a danger to yourself.

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#93464 - 06/25/03 01:51 AM Re: Knives
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
I studied a middle eastern style of knife fighting, no idea what it was called.

It was with a 12” double edged curved blade that is fashioned to be held between the fingers (2 each side) and was used in a very boxing like manner.

I found it to be truly devastating. Bloody terrifying in fact!!!

Lots of wrist rolling cuts and back hand stabs.

Never actually found a real blade that was shaped to fit the hand properly, but even a normal blade works all too well.
Royal Marine commando dagger was the nearest

But as has been said in the UK can even carry a screwdriver without it being an offence, which I think is a damn good!

Mark

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#93465 - 06/25/03 02:48 AM Re: Knives
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 302
Loc: Munich
I used to train at a karate club that taught a bit of Kali/Escrima on the side.

I learnt from practicing and practice sparring with a knife that unless you REALLY know how to use a knife its suicide to get into a knife fight.

I found I wasn't comfortable with the blade in my hand and couldn't really fight properly as I tended to fixate on using the weapon. The best I could safely manage under pressure really was little better than mindless slashing.

PS

Ender how do you propose to get your knife out from your trouser leg in a fight??



[This message has been edited by Jim (edited 06-25-2003).]

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#93466 - 06/25/03 06:17 AM Re: Knives
Fighting Dwarf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 322
Loc: UK
Jamoni, thanks.

Judderman, I think you are absolutely right. First of all, I am speaking from virtually zero experience on this point, so I'm sure my opinion is not very valuable on this topic. But having said that, here it is anyway!

The fact that you know the weapon is there means you would be more likely to rely on it in a situation where perhaps you could have talked your way out. Okay, if you have to carry a knife for your job, that's a different matter. It's more likely to be a last resort. If you're walking around with a 6" knife at your ankle it's going to be more at the front of your mind - "if someone jumps out at me, I'll just pull my knife out and they'll go away..." that's what it's there for, afterall. As opposed to "if someone jumps out at me I'll just pull my Stanley knife out of my tool box..."

Jim, that's something I hadn't thought of, but now you mention it it makes sense. I assume that anyone who is prepared to carry a knife is also prepared to put in the time to learn how to use it. But that's not neccessarily the the case. Someone who who doesn't know how to handle it is probably telegraphing that fact - hello Mr Attacker, I've got a knife here so, no, you can't have my wallet... I'm just going to wave my big shiny knife around and you're going to go away... ow! oh dear... that wasn't supposed to happen... now I've cut myself on my own knife and you've taken the knife off me... er... would you like to take my wallet now, or would you like to stab me couple of times first?

-Charlie

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#93467 - 06/25/03 09:21 AM Re: Knives
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I've practiced pulling it out, and I found the best way to do it is to whip it out while rolling. Yes, you ehard me correctly.

Rolling ina situation will...

a) get me out of danger (if ise e where Im rolling to first)
b) give me a chance to get my hand to my ankle intime to get out the blade
c) distance me (hopefully) from my attacker(s) to the po9int where I can think for a moment and evaluate a situation.


If I am rushed out of nowhere, then I dont have to worry because Im not going to pull out the knife til ive had a chance to evaluate whether or not its a life-saving of a good idea. If 6 guys jump me unarmed, chances are, fi I cant run, I wont pull the knife. Why? Becuase Id rather fight 6 unarmed guys while im unarmed, then 6 guys with knives whule I have a knife.

Its all evaluation.

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#93468 - 06/25/03 09:45 AM Re: Knives
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
I can't see rolling as a good option.

Moving on your feet is faster, less likely to cause injury to yourself, and you can control the position you end up in better.

JohnL

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#93469 - 06/25/03 09:47 AM Re: Knives
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 302
Loc: Munich
Ender

I suggest you attempt your roll and draw manuvouevre with some friends and a practice knife and see if you rolling is faster than them running.

Your post here is just as unrealistic and ill thought out as the one nearly identical one you placed in one of the other threads.

Suggest you reread Jamoni's post and have a long think....

Also a question for the guys over the water.
As I understand UK law it is not so much the weapon you are carrying its the intent for which you are carrying it that is important. Is this also true in the US?

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#93470 - 06/25/03 11:35 AM Re: Knives
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Jim

Under UK law, the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 forbids the carrying of an offensive weapon in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. An offensive weapon is one that is made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person or intended by the person having it for such use by himself or another. The burden of proving lawful authority or reasonable excuse lies upon the person carrying the prohibited article. Conviction under the act can bring a sentence of 4 years of indictment and or a fine or six months on summary conviction and or a fine. Therefore your belief is generaly on the right lines.

However, the Criminal Justice Act 1988 which was devised very much as an anti knife piece of legislation makes it an offence to carry any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife with a cutting edge of 3 inches or less, in a public place - without GOOD REASON or lawful authority. The term "without good reason" is argueably more narrow than reasonable excuse. In short if you carry a bladed instrument in public (other than a folding knife of 3 inches or less) and dont have a specific and valid reason for having it then prepare to face the consequences. If you dont have one, you face up to 2 years and or a fine on indictment or six months and or a fine on summary conviction.

That's essential the position as regards knives in the UK.

Regds
Mr V



[This message has been edited by MrVigerous (edited 06-25-2003).]

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#93471 - 06/25/03 11:59 AM Re: Knives
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Ender, your post is really funny. Keep up the good work [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Budo

PS For what it is worth, I think Fighting Dwarf is 100% right. But hey, if folk want to walk around playing at being Musashi re-incarnate, it's their life they're in danger of ruining, not mine.

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#93472 - 06/25/03 12:06 PM Re: Knives
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Ender,

What you do in your spare time is your business (rolling around and whipping it out) and NONE of ours. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Scott

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#93473 - 06/25/03 03:53 PM Re: Knives
Yoseikan Student Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
A small penknife for cutting string - occupational thing.......

CARRYING A KNIFE!!!???!!! - Bloody hell, Rambo wannabes comin' out of the closet.

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#93474 - 06/25/03 05:50 PM Re: Knives
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Yoseikan, most people I know who carry knives carry a medium size (3 inches is about right) folding lockblade. I do. From what Mr. V has said, that would even be legal in the UK. Besides, REAL Rambo-philes would build explosive tipped arrows. Anyway, I look great in a headband, I LOVE to fire my M-60 from the hip, and my unintelligible drawl ROCKS! Got a pwoblem wif dat?

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#93475 - 06/25/03 05:53 PM Re: Knives
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
Just as a quick aside, but linked.

Psychological studies have indicated that the presence of a weapon, or images/phrases related to weapons, can increase the tendancy toward aggression.

You could argue that pulling a knife on someone is going to piss them off more than just threatening them.

I also seen the aggressive use of force at work. People who think take the force/authritarian route too quickly, because they believe they can, because they know they will win. There is a time and a place for these things, and all to often it can have a tendancy to back fire on you. I guess the same is for carrying effective weaponry.

Budo.

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#93476 - 06/25/03 06:22 PM Re: Knives
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Jamoni

I should have mentioned. Even the three inch or less blade which is folding MUST NOT be lockable. Equaly flick knives with any blade size, butterfly knives with any blade size (the type where the blade is between the handles and comes out with a wrist roll), push knives, buckle knives, gravity blades, disguised blades of any kind and throwing knives are all prohibited. Anything else ive forgotten is probably prohibited too [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] In short if you want to carry a bladed instrument you're ok with a swiss arm knife or a leatherman but that's about it!

Regds
Mr V

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#93477 - 06/25/03 07:04 PM Re: Knives
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Wow. Weren't you guys KNIGHTS, and stuff? Chivalry is dead.

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#93478 - 06/25/03 07:19 PM Re: Knives
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Ah yes but in our enlightened Democracy we have handed over most of our rights to protect ourselves (and most of the implements for doing it more effectively) to the state and the ever vigilant British bobby! (except at royal birthday parties obviously [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] )

Anecdote based of true story:

Man wakes up in the night hears noises coming from downstairs. Opens door, listens and decides he's got an intruder in the house. Like the good law abiding citizen he is, he phones the police. On connecting with the boys in blue, he is told that there is nobody available to get there at the present time so stay where he is and hopefully the intruder will leave - the police will be around when they can! Great he thinks and stays in the bedroom, listening for any footsteps up the stairs. Eventualy he can't stand the tension and has a brainwave. He phones the police back and says "Dont bother rushing around i went downstairs and shot him so there's no hurry". Within 5 minutes the street outside is awash with blue lights, sirens and every police vehicle within miles. The man goes downstairs sees the intuder has left and opens the front door. Armed police and foot sloggers everywhere. Eventualy when it's discovered he's not armed a search is made and no body is found. "I thought you said you'd shot him" says one officer to the man. " I thought you said you couldn't make it!" said the man. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

No wonder people agonise over the merits of arming themselves and thereby risk breaking the law, simply to protect themselves and there family.

Regds
Mr V


[This message has been edited by MrVigerous (edited 06-25-2003).]

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#93479 - 06/25/03 10:25 PM Re: Knives
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Hmm, prehaps my strategy needs to be thought out better. Thank you for the input, I'll go over it immediately looking for ways to improve. I'll keep you all posted on my progress.

Thanks again.

-Dan

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#93480 - 06/25/03 10:55 PM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
I regret that you all allowed your goverment to take away your right to bear arms. Same thing happened in Austrailia. Thier crime didn't go down either. So as they say adapt and over come. Screw drivers are still legal, I hope. I bet you can learn how to use one to protect yourself. I bet you can even carry one in your brief case. Improvised weapon. Ed

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#93481 - 06/26/03 04:04 AM Re: Knives
Fighting Dwarf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 322
Loc: UK
Ed, I for one don't regret it at all. At least in the UK we don't have drive by shootings everyday and metal detectors installed in schools.
And surely if you carry a screwdriver around in your briefcase with the specific purpose of using it as a weapon, that would be illegal too? Mr V?

-Charlie

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#93482 - 06/26/03 04:56 AM Re: Knives
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 302
Loc: Munich
Mr V I am from the UK too, live in Germany now. I meant the other side of the water, sorry.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Glasheen:
I regret that you all allowed your goverment to take away your right to bear arms. [/QUOTE]

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Article II sounds more like to the right to have an Assault rifle at home and be called upon to do military service, not the right to wonder round with a switch blade.

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#93483 - 06/26/03 07:49 AM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Actually our founding fathers put that into our constitution to make sure we could take up arms against an unjust government. Like say if Hilary became president and wanted to castrate all males. One reason why Hitler band personal weapons in the 30's. We all know where that went. See any similarites. No Government or Police Force can fully protect it's citizens. But they can take your homiside report and tax your estate when you are gone. I belive in moral laws and all but not at the expense of my freedoms. Thats why we left England in the first place. Ed

[This message has been edited by Ed Glasheen (edited 06-26-2003).]

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#93484 - 06/26/03 08:25 AM Re: Knives
Fighting Dwarf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 322
Loc: UK
Ed, please don't ever think about coming back! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

-C

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#93485 - 06/26/03 09:43 AM Re: Knives
York Karate Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 132
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Ed,
I just don’t get your attitude? You are aggressive to a fault and never seem to try and see other sides. The US is perhaps the most violent culture in the western world based I believe mostly on the type of attitude you display in every post you make.
I am very happy to live in a safe society where guns and other offence weapons are strictly controlled.

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#93486 - 06/26/03 01:31 PM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
I regret that you feel that I am rude and aggressive. I am trying not to offend anyone. Politics are hard to agree on. As far as this country or that country, hey we all have to live somewhere. An we all have to deal with the issues that we live in. I am glad that you feel that your country is safe. My self along with thousands of others insure that every day. And yes I am aggressive, arrogant and at times rude. But I speak from the heart and experience. I know I've stirred some shit up. Good. Too many of us go day by day sleeping with a false sense of security. I know now I am paranoid. No but these forums have proved to me one thing, that you all are passionate,and you try to improve yourselfs how ever possible. I applaud you! The United States is the most powerfull country in the world, like it or not, because of the above traits. We are not about to stop. Just remember if it wasn't for us yanks you would be speaking German. Arrogant yes. Aggressive yes. We get the job done. Ed

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#93487 - 06/26/03 03:31 PM Re: Knives
Anonymous
Unregistered


[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]

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#93488 - 06/26/03 04:47 PM Re: Knives
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
I thought that many Americans were of the notion that it was the military's and/or the police's job to protect and bear arms to protect the freedom of the public and individual?

For me I am happy that the general public don't carry weaponry legally.

Its enough to trust the forces, let alone Joe Public.

Budo.

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#93489 - 06/26/03 04:54 PM Re: Knives
madhag Offline
Member

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 150
Loc: Seattle, WA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Glasheen:
Actually our founding fathers put that into our constitution to make sure we could take up arms against an unjust government. Like say if Hilary became president and wanted to castrate all males. One reason why Hitler band personal weapons in the 30's. We all know where that went. See any similarites. No Government or Police Force can fully protect it's citizens. But they can take your homiside report and tax your estate when you are gone. I belive in moral laws and all but not at the expense of my freedoms. Thats why we left England in the first place. Ed

[This message has been edited by Ed Glasheen (edited 06-26-2003).]
[/QUOTE]

My, don't we already resemble early Nazi with rigged elections, deteriorated civil rights, and an imperialistic plutocracy.
I'm compromised as a loud mouthed, opinionated american thanks to Ashcroft and friends. My tax money is paying for a Halliburton executive's yacht. I want my money back!
Back on the subject. I carry a key chain size swiss army knife to cut open those hard to rip snack packages [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

[This message has been edited by madhag (edited 06-26-2003).]

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#93490 - 06/27/03 03:49 AM Re: Knives
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 302
Loc: Munich
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Glasheen:
I regret that you feel that I am rude and aggressive. I am trying not to offend anyone. Politics are hard to agree on. As far as this country or that country, hey we all have to live somewhere. An we all have to deal with the issues that we live in. I am glad that you feel that your country is safe. My self along with thousands of others insure that every day. And yes I am aggressive, arrogant and at times rude. But I speak from the heart and experience. I know I've stirred some shit up. Good. Too many of us go day by day sleeping with a false sense of security. I know now I am paranoid. No but these forums have proved to me one thing, that you all are passionate,and you try to improve yourselfs how ever possible. I applaud you! The United States is the most powerfull country in the world, like it or not, because of the above traits. We are not about to stop. Just remember if it wasn't for us yanks you would be speaking German. Arrogant yes. Aggressive yes. We get the job done. Ed[/QUOTE]

Ed sometimes you almost manage a well reasoned comment but then you come out with ignorant rubbish. Do you have Tourets syndrome?

PS suggest you read a history book sometime.

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#93491 - 06/27/03 06:52 AM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Thanks I will pick up a history book. Until then the Discovery Channel does fine.Ed
PS. B**W Me. Sorry that tourets thing again!

[This message has been edited by Ed Glasheen (edited 06-27-2003).]

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#93492 - 06/27/03 08:32 AM Re: Knives
xerxes Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 515
Loc: Georgia, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by York Karate:
Ed,
I just don’t get your attitude? You are aggressive to a fault and never seem to try and see other sides. The US is perhaps the most violent culture in the western world based I believe mostly on the type of attitude you display in every post you make.
I am very happy to live in a safe society where guns and other offence weapons are strictly controlled.
[/QUOTE]

YK, don't think that every person in the U.S. military is like Ed Gladsheen. I've known about 15 people who were or had been in the armed services and not a single one of them displayed the kind of attitude that Ed does.

As far as U.S. being most violent Western culture you need to take a look at Latin America.

For that matter consider the UK. You know, we don't have riots at sporting events to the extent that you do. Right now you're probably thinking that the soccer(football) hooliganism thing is not as bad as I am impyling and that this is just anti-UK prejuidice on my part. Right, that's the point. Don't prejudge the U.S. based on Ed Glasheen.

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#93493 - 06/27/03 08:34 AM Re: Knives
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 302
Loc: Munich
Ed! Keep your sick fantasies to yourself!

Xerxes you're right.
I live abroad and sometimes find it annoying when people make sweeping statements about the UK.


[This message has been edited by Jim (edited 06-27-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Jim (edited 06-27-2003).]

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#93494 - 06/27/03 09:04 AM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] You guys are so easy! Ed

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#93495 - 06/27/03 09:22 AM Re: Knives
Anonymous
Unregistered


I fail to see how bashing each other's culture is condusive to intelligent argument there is good and bad in ALL cultures.

However, as we are on the subject, I would like to thank Ed and his fellow countrymen for their help in the last world war. We have forgiven you for being so late as you are obviously doing your best to be especially early for the next one.
Sharon

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#93496 - 06/27/03 09:31 AM Re: Knives
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Lets stop with the nationality bashing, because it won't go anywhere. Arguing over such a thing is pointless because its all based on seeing different points of the same arguement.

WHO CARES WHERE YOU ARE FROM?

It doesn't distinguish who you are, or what your like (well, myabe to a small point due to experiences, but other than that).

American, English, Canadian, Spanish, and god forbid even French, we're all human friggin beings. START ACTING LIKE IT.

Gun control, no gun control, WHO CARES? We should prepare for weapon attacks whether we face them daily or not.

Nuff said.

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#93497 - 06/27/03 12:43 PM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Its amazing what a rise someone can get with just some words. Fighting is 80% mental. I wanted to see how people in this forum would react to a rude commenter that they never met or have the ability to.
If someone was rude to you at a social function would you react differently? Would your desision be based upon your physical assestment? Would you be more tolerent because of your assesment? Ed

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#93498 - 06/27/03 01:00 PM Re: Knives
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Glasheen:
Its amazing what a rise someone can get with just some words. Fighting is 80% mental. I wanted to see how people in this forum would react to a rude commenter that they never met or have the ability to.
If someone was rude to you at a social function would you react differently? Would your desision be based upon your physical assestment? Would you be more tolerent because of your assesment? Ed
[/QUOTE]

Interesting thought Ed.

If I go to a social function where I do not know people, I ensure that I am polite and do not deliberately antagonise the people who are already at the function.
If I was the host of such an event and you displayed the behaivior you have exhibited on this forum, I would have asked you to leave. If you had not I would have thrown you out.
Arriving in the first place and insulting people would show a lack of manners, refusing to leave when asked would show a lack of class.

On this forum, you now state that your rudeness is merely an experiment to see how people react. I do not believe you. You walked onto the forum, insulted everyone with your boorish attitude, arrogance, and opinions, and now expect to be taken seriously.
You have embarrassed Americans, the military, and yourself.

If you had any class you would leave.

JohnL

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#93499 - 06/27/03 01:21 PM Re: Knives
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
Could we keep this on track?

This political and cultural bollocks has been done time and time again.

I figured that we had all dropped this crap from the last few time its happened.

Personally I think Ed may have something to offer, but his attitute appears to be off key.

I hope he turns out to be another JKolgas, realises that his method of communicating is doing nothing but gripping everyones sh*t and winds his neck in a bit.

I've seen on other threads that Ed has begun to realise this.

So Ed, I would hope that you would have gained a glimpse of the breadth of knowledge and experience on this site and realise that, through reasonable communication, we can all benefit. I assume this is why you origionally started posting here?

After all, if we are all idiots, then a sensible person would stop posting here and leave us to it?

So everyone, can we call off this stupid playground crap and get back to the MA stuff?


Budo.

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#93500 - 06/27/03 02:02 PM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
I promise to be polite. Hey so what do you think about the mental training in your dojo or home workshop? Do you think it prepares you for the street. I read a book by an Army Officer who did research on mans inability to kill fellow men. In it he stated that during WWII only 40% of infantry soilders actualy fired there weapons in combat. And only 10% actualy aimed thier weapons. This is why we have human pop up targets now. To condition you to fire and hit your target. What do you do to mentaly prepare yourself? Ed

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#93501 - 06/27/03 02:07 PM Re: Knives
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Charlie

Unless you were an electrician then you's better think of a good reason for having it. Lets be honest if you don't use the screwdriver and don't attepmt to board an airplane then its very unlikely that anyone will discover you have it. The problem comes of course when you DO use. In those circumstances it would become an offensive weapon and you may be liable to prosecution under either of the pieces of legislation that I mentioned above. You would need either a "reasonable excuse" or a "good reason" to have it in a public place. Saying "well you've banned knives and I thought this would be a good substitute" is not going to cut any ice in my opinion. lol

Regds
Mr V

[This message has been edited by MrVigerous (edited 06-27-2003).]

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#93502 - 06/27/03 02:19 PM Re: Knives
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
I too would like to see things get back on topic and off of this generalised nationalistic socio political bandwagon, which unless im going senile was something ive specificaly prohibited from the forum in the past. Long term regulars should be aware of this fact and newcomers now are. Credit where credit is due, I asked Ed to tone down the personal nature of his posts and he has done so. I would therfore ask other people not to aggravate the issue by posting inflamatory psychoanalystic posts.

Regds
Mr V

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#93503 - 06/27/03 02:20 PM Re: Knives
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
I for one really enjoy all the arguments and squabbles.

But indeed it is very off topic at times, and many dont enjoy it.

We lost Taebot, Amazon chick and Bluestar, I think ED is doing better than all 3 of them together.

xerxes. great post, I did not think that at Latin America WAS a western culture!?

I do agree that Britain is far from a eutpoia, but we have had more practice at it than most, so hence our weapon laws etc.

Must say that any brit bashing is just fine by me, as long as people can take the reply. My comments might be rather “cutting” (see I got back on topic in the end) :d

Regards to all,


Mark

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#93504 - 06/27/03 02:23 PM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Mr V, If I used a pen and stabbed you in the throat not only would I be charged with Attempted Murder, If I didn't kill you, But also criminal posession of a weapon. A pen would fall under dangerous instrument. So anything you use to defend yourself can be against the law. At least if you are stopped for what ever reason and the cop finds a screwdriver on you, you are less likly to cause suspicsion. Unless you are stopped trying to pry open you neighbors window. Ed

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#93505 - 06/27/03 02:27 PM Re: Knives
York Karate Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 132
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Good day Xerxes

1st I am not British, never said I was, nothing wrong with the British I’m just not one.

Second I don’t judge all Americans, let alone ex US military like Ed, if I did …well lets just say I like many Americans, have several American friends and all that and while I see faults in the culture overall I think it is a positive one and we could do a lot worse having them in the position of the “worlds policeman”. If I think about it I guess I was reacting to Ed’s belligerent attitude on everything to everyone and his clear lack of education in the statements he makes, sorry to all those other open minded Americans out there. Have a good weekend

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#93506 - 06/27/03 02:37 PM Re: Knives
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Ed an' all.

If you are stopped by the police and searched, it is presumably because you are acting in a suspicious nature in the first place. (Stop and search laws being what they are. And yes I know this varies from country to country.)

If after acting suspiciously and getting searched, the cops find a 6" screwdriver in your pocket, your claims of, "I was only going to fix my mates shelves down the road officer" are not likely to get you very far.

Police everywhere are taking a dim view of anything that they consider could be used as a weapon. (It's easier to find an excuse for a pen than a screwdriver) I doubt if the police will listen to any excuse for a knife. That's, "This is carrying an offensive weapon mate," and off to the local nick.

As I said earlier, I don't carry a knife (or screwdriver for that matter) but as an older balding guy, I draw the attention of the police less than younger, partying dudes.
I do carry the odd pen or two though. Is there no end to my daring.

JohnL

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#93507 - 06/27/03 02:52 PM Re: Knives
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
Interesting question.

It is very difficult to prepare yourself for aggressive encounters.

For me there is a balance between understanding and experience, with experience being the most important.

I research a lot and then I apply some of these elements in day to day life. Many encounters can be simplified by understanding your own psychological and physiological reactions to the situation.

Experience is the key though. You learn to deal with various situations, so when you encounter them again, you are better prepared. Hence reactions can be learnt.

I have heard of other methods.

JKolgas is one for keeping training "alive" or "resistive", just as your military training I would imagine. This makes you better prepared in "real" situations.

Geoff Thompson wrote that the way he prepared for situations would be to tell himself, "No matter what happens, I'll deal with it". In his books he also refers to a training method, I think called The Rule of Three. The idea is to mentally imagine a situation, but use at least 3 of your 5 senses during preperation. So you hear the words, feel the strikes, and see the techniques and results.

Thing is "experience is what you get after the time you needed it most".

What about you?

Budo.

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#93508 - 06/27/03 03:54 PM Re: Knives
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Ed.

I can't speak for other jurisdictions but in the UK, anything that you carry in public and subsequently use as a weapon can be deemed to be offensive if it can be shown that you intended to use it as such. Therefore you comment as regards the pen is correct but would fankly be difficult to prove. Having a screwdriver however is an entirely different matter. Having it with a case of other tools and claiming you are an electrician on the way to do a job is one thing. Having just a screwdriver and a crowbar in a bag and nothing else could have you halled in for "going equiped to steal." To be honest, getting stopped on a random stop and search and having a screwdriver found is one thing. The problem arises when you use it to defend yourself. Unlike a pen, a screwdriver is very likley to be deemed to be an offensive weapon. In the UK, the onus would then be on you to show reasonable excuse or a good reason, depending on which piece of legislation you were charged under. The bottom line is, if you don't ever use it then why carry it in the first place. If you do use it you are likely to face charges relating to its carriage. It's a non starter to be honest.

Regds
Mr V

[This message has been edited by MrVigerous (edited 06-27-2003).]

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#93509 - 06/28/03 03:56 PM Re: Knives
Bluestar Offline
Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 48
I go, I come back. Surprised anyone noticed.

Rather than risk carrying something as obviously offensive as a knife or screwdriver - how about buying a can of beans at the beginning of every trip, which when swung in a poly bag can be quite destructive.

And I'd like to say something about WW2, but I won't. (I doubt Adolf would have honoured the UKs war debts though...) Ooops sorry just slipped out.

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#93510 - 06/29/03 05:34 AM Re: Knives
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
Good to see a post from you Bluestar, very subtle [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#93511 - 06/29/03 09:00 PM Re: Knives
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Now it's all settled down in the country bashing dept, I'd like to add that it's illegal here [NZ] to carry knives too.

I used to carry a big swiss army knife on my car keys [as an engineer I like to pull things to bits from time to time] but since the airlines have tightened up security I stopped carrying it on me. It still goes in my suitcase though, I'd never be without one! At home on the farm I always have a knife handy because I always need one to cut bailing twine or stick a cow with bloat.

I got some really funny looks one day walking down the main street of the Auckland in my miniskirt & high heels carrying a 6ft bo and a set of chucks though... and people gave me a really wide berth! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

It's also illegal here to sell chucks [and some of the other weapons too] to someone who isn't a member of a martial arts club, you have to show your membership card or an invoice from your club before they'll let you buy them.

Flick knives are illegal here, and we don't carry guns either.

be well

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#93512 - 06/30/03 03:54 PM Re: Knives
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
Was it the large bits of wood or seeing you in a miniskirt and high heels that scared the locals?

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Budo.

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#93513 - 06/30/03 05:20 PM Re: Knives
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
[QUOTE]Originally posted by judderman:
Was it the large bits of wood or seeing you in a miniskirt and high heels that scared the locals?

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Budo.
[/QUOTE]

well I could tell u but then I'd have to kill u...

ROFL [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [it was probably a bit of both!]

anyway when u come over here next year for your trip you'll meet me, then you'll know for sure! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

train hard, be well

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#93514 - 07/01/03 01:07 PM Re: Knives
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Reiki:
well I could tell u but then I'd have to kill u...

ROFL [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [it was probably a bit of both!]

anyway when u come over here next year for your trip you'll meet me, then you'll know for sure! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

train hard, be well

[/QUOTE]

Now I'm REALLY scared!! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif[/IMG]

Budo.

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#93515 - 07/01/03 03:57 PM Re: Knives
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
[QUOTE]Originally posted by judderman:
Now I'm REALLY scared!! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif[/IMG]

Budo.
[/QUOTE]

in the words of Arnie
"Be afraid, be really afraid....!"
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

As an aside Judderman, u would be really proud of my efforts last nite during training. I managed to dump and choke out our leader and there was no way he could get out of it either! He's considerably bigger than me at about 6ft3 and about 14 stone, and about 3 times stronger! But I was quicker and once I got my hooks in he was gone....

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#93516 - 07/02/03 04:36 PM Re: Knives
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
ReiKi,
In the words of Mr. Vader:
"Impressive. Most Impressive."

I know this originally started as a weapon post, but has anyone had any more thoughts on Ed's question of mental preperation?

Budo.

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#93517 - 07/08/03 03:28 PM Re: Knives
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 724
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
Well ive been away for a while but this post looked to good to stay away from.
As for carrying a knife, im from the UK so the points have already been made as to the law.
If I could carry a blade id agree with Mr V a good tanto fits the bill nicely. Otherwise an SOG S37 or CQD Mark V.

I personally feel it is a blessing to live in a society where we can walk out without feeling the need to arm ourselves.

On the subject of knives and after reading some of the posts recently:
Ed, After reading the posts and your original question i would assume you have a good knowledge of edged weapons however after reading your website and the move of the month would you really teach that move to students as a real form of defence against a knife?
Moving inside the arc of the weapon would always be the last place I would want to be. Also the opponent still has the weapon at the end of the encounter that seems a very big risk???

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#93518 - 07/08/03 09:46 PM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Take out the knifer with strikes.If you concentrate on holding the knife hand you will get stabbed and probably go to the ground in a grappeling match. All strikes should be targeted on vitals strike points not just head hunting.The back of the neck strike will knock the guy out and if done right will kill.I am not worried about the knife because I am going thru the knifer in an attempt to take him out.If he is out I don't have to worry about the knife.Again you are violently going thru the guy. This is not a Tit for Tat technique.You have to be comitted on ending it right there right now. That is your only chance of surviving.You keep on hitting until he goes down and then you step on his throat. This works, I know from experience. But go ahead and use what you have learn. Play tit for tat, grab the knife,grappel and play patty cake.I'll stick to what's proven to end it quick.Enough said. Thanks again for checking out my site. Ed

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#93519 - 07/28/03 06:21 PM Re: Knives
javaman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/04/03
Posts: 179
Loc: calgary, alberta, canada
uh, I like to carry a 3 3/4 crkt partially serrated fastlock, but some times I have carried a 3 1/2 fixed blade straight buck knife, (I keep it in a book bag and if i am in a situation that makes me a little nervous I can keep my hand in the bag on the knife without appearing suspicious; at least not to a layman)

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#93520 - 07/29/03 07:39 AM Re: Knives
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by javaman:
uh, I like to carry a 3 3/4 crkt partially serrated fastlock, but some times I have carried a 3 1/2 fixed blade straight buck knife, (I keep it in a book bag and if i am in a situation that makes me a little nervous I can keep my hand in the bag on the knife without appearing suspicious; at least not to a layman)[/QUOTE]


Hi Javaman

Sounds like a good method of landing yourself in a whole lot of trouble.

My advice FWIW:

Lose the knife.

JohnL

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#93521 - 07/29/03 10:07 PM Re: Knives
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Ok time to piss people off. I didnt read the whole thread but I read most. I dont carry a knife or a pen or a needle or whatever. A weapon is for a school girl walking down a dark alley, not a MAist. If you carry a weapon then you must be insecure in your training. Nuff said. As for mental preperation, Military is where its at, also there are certain drills Ive seen done in Dojos. A sparring session begins, routinely just like any other but all of a sudden lights flick on and off people start throwing things and yelling, loud music begins to play,People start running all over the place the whole time trying to break your focus.

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#93522 - 07/30/03 10:58 PM Re: Knives
javaman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/04/03
Posts: 179
Loc: calgary, alberta, canada
I understand the risks john, and it is legal to do what I described (carying a concealed knife, as long as it is under six inches, one sided and not a switchblade)
I don't know if you meant legal trouble or something worse, but thank you for your advice. Carying a knife is not a decision I made lightly, and I do reconsider the decision quite often. But one thing; what does "FWIW" mean?

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#93523 - 07/30/03 11:30 PM Re: Knives
Anonymous
Unregistered


fwiw=for what it is worth

better check local statutes,they vary.Here in my part of Texas it is blade length of under 4 1/4".

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#93524 - 08/02/03 09:59 AM Re: Knives
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
RE: suspicious characters with knives.
An officer checked my tags because I was behaving suspiciously. By that he meant I was a white guy in a black neighborhood carrying a toolbox out of someones backyard on a saturday morning. Anyway, I had my Buck Crosslock on me, told him, and all he did was check the length to make sure it wasn't over 3 1/4". I showed him a business card to prove I was a contractor, and he was fine. Didn't impound my saws or hammers or screwdrivers or even my roofing hatchet.

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#93525 - 08/02/03 11:11 PM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Chen Zen, you are clueless.
I'll place a twenty dollar bet that Jumanji is in jail by the time this thread is done. Ed

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#93526 - 08/02/03 11:20 PM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Chen Zen, you are clueless.
I'll place a twenty dollar bet that Jumanji is in jail by the time this thread is done. Ed

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#93527 - 08/04/03 10:24 AM Re: Knives
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
I Agree with ed. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#93528 - 08/04/03 10:25 AM Re: Knives
Isshin Dude Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 480
Loc: Knoxville Tennessee U.S.A
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Isshin Dude:
I Agree with ed. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

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#93529 - 08/04/03 08:54 PM Re: Knives
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
ED, call me clueless, personally I think you are WEAK. A weapon is a sure sign of inability, insecurity, fear, and weakness. Weapons are for gang bangers and untrained individuals afraid to walk out there front door due to fear of their own shadows. Or maybe your just a point fighter in which case you are probably better off carrying a weapon due to your weak abilities as a fighter. If you cant handle a situation with your hands, feet, and mind then you dont deserve to call yourself a fighter or a warrior of any kind. So when you go out carrying your weapon make sure you have on a clean pair of panties because a guy like me would kill you the very instant you pulled out your puny screwdriver or blade. Oh and ED, I like a girl who wears pink!

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#93530 - 08/04/03 11:33 PM Re: Knives
javaman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/04/03
Posts: 179
Loc: calgary, alberta, canada
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
. If you carry a weapon then you must be insecure in your training. Nuff said. [/QUOTE]

What if my training includes weapons? If that were the case then carrying a weapon would mean I am confident in my training and rely on it for use in dangerous situations.

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#93531 - 08/05/03 12:09 AM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Chen Chen, You make me laugh! You are still clueless. Break your neck with my hands or stab you in the throat with my knife makes no difference to me. I can do both. As long as the outcome is the same. You dead,me alive. Thats all. Ed

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#93532 - 08/05/03 11:54 AM Re: Knives
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Well Ed, if you can do both then why carry a weapon? So you can fumble around trying to get it out of your pockets? Doesnt sound to smart to me. So you can make your opponent more aggressive at the site of a weapon? Not a good option. So instead of self defense you can get charged with assault with a deadly weapon or homicide? Not what I would want. Or so when you pull out your screwdriver you can get shot? Sounds like a one legged man at an ass kicking contest to me. Or maybe, and more likely, you are getting old and feel that your skills are insufficient to save your own skin. Maybe the skills were never present? Sounds like it. Weapons are for the weak and the weak hearted. As for weapons training in MA, its supplementery and is taught for no other reason than to have something else to keep you occupied. More often than not this training is optional and not mandatory for advancement which speaks volumes in itself. Why train if all you plan to do is try and arm yourself with a weapon that most likely wont see the light of day because you are getting pummeled by your assailant as you try in vain to pull it out. The weapon is worthless unless you are walking around with it in your hand in the first place. So call me clueless or whatever you will but when you are paying the hospital bills or with your life due to an overdependence on weaponry then you will witness first hand who is clueless. Weapons are for the weak hearted, scared, unskilled, untrained, underachievers who can do little to keep from pissing themselves in the face of confrontation. Keep your weapons and your injuries sustained while trying to use them.

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#93533 - 08/05/03 02:11 PM Re: Knives
Fighting Dwarf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 322
Loc: UK
Well, I'm with Chen on this one, although I might have worded it a little less strongly!

-Charlie

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#93534 - 08/05/03 05:13 PM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Weapons, tools were invented for a reason. To make our work easier. With your attitude you should be walking to school or work instead of using your car. Their is no difference. A knife, in this case makes my work that much easier at times. As does a gun ect. I can't even belive I am replying to this BS. The weakness is your attitude and your thoughts. You sound like you were brainwashed by a Sholin Monk. Ed

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#93535 - 08/05/03 06:05 PM Re: Knives
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Hey Ed

Weapons were indeed invented to make killing easier. When stoneage man first hit an animal with a stick instead of killing it with his bare hands, he started the whole process.

However when you say it makes fighting easier it isn't necessarily the case. Only if your weapon is better than your opponents is this the case. You are therefore putting forward that defending yourself is easier when you have a knife because your opponent doesn't have one. If this is the case, why did you pull the weapon in the first place. In addition, regardless of the outcome of that confrontation, you're the one going to jail.

If you carry a knife because the opponent has one, then you have no advantage, all you've done is escalate the violence.

I stand by my opinion.

If you walk around with a knife, eventually you'll use it. In the process, you'll main, possibly kill someone, and then end up in jail without wife, kids and family.

I personally think it's a bad deal.

JohnL

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#93536 - 08/05/03 07:10 PM Re: Knives
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
ED, the only weapon you should ever have to use is your brain, and the skills learned as a MAist. If these are insufficient then by all means carry a knife or club. It has nothing to do with brainwashing it has to do with witnessing what happens to incompetent fools who pull weapons out in altercations.
A screwdriver was meant to screw things together, not to try and shank some guy who pissed you off. I see you doing this as your attitude is less than admirable and so are your skills, socially and physically. The things you posted under this thread make you sound like a scared boy in a man's world. A real man comes equipped with every weapon he will ever need, and it isnt located in his back pocket or toolbox.

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#93537 - 08/05/03 07:22 PM Re: Knives
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
I've refrained from jumping in on this post (right, I've LURKED) because I have such strong feelings about knives. When I was 5 years old, my father died in battle because an opponent stabbed him in the heart with a knife that--how shall I put it?--hadn't been seen before it was felt. My early interest in the nunchaku derived in large part from a concern about defense against edged weapons, and I admit that JohnL's point about escalation is a good one. All that having been said, though, in the past I have carried a curved lock-back serrated-edge blade that can be opened with one hand. At the time I was in a field where such an item had a legitimate non-weaponry use, and in any event its superior practical utility in combat is limited to one specific situation: the choke-hold applied from behind. Nothing breaks that grip faster than a slice though the tendons just inside the elbow...

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#93538 - 08/05/03 07:28 PM Re: Knives
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
...the only weapon you should ever have to use is your brain...[/QUOTE]

See:

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257/wr1weapons.html

Scroll down to the part about the King.

Sweeney

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#93539 - 08/05/03 09:19 PM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Chen Chen you are inexperience and an amature at personal combat. Hey if you are happy with what you do, good for you. Having delt with weapons my whole life, I can assure real men do use weapons. So your little attacks do make me laugh. Cause you really have no clue. I am sorry that the other person lost his father in a blade attack. Sucks. I think you all worry to much about the law and jail. You have the right to defend yourself. If you are stupid enough to include every detail about your incident then you deserve to be ass raped. But hey do what you do. By the way screw drivers are great tools. They can be, can openers, pry bars and work great when stabbing people. The Soviet SKS bayonet as well as our Civil War bayonets are similar. They are more effective at killing people than knives. Why, because they penetrate deep hitting major organs. Your Spydeco will not. Different design. Agian Chen Chen you have no clue. Ed

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#93540 - 08/05/03 09:38 PM Re: Knives
roundhouser Offline
Member

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 96
Loc: melbourne
hey ed man why don't you cut chen some slack? MA isn't about learning how to use screw drivers. MA teaches diciple and stabbing people with screw drivers is just malicious. Soon MAists will all be a bunch of armed gang members from wat ur sayin. We learn it to be alive at the end of a day if someone attacks us not to see how bad u can smash the other guy in the process. yes you do have to be harsh but not barbaric. Chen is talkin like a true MAist so lets keep this about MA and not about how good screw drivers are to do criminal things like pry open doors and stab people that give you crap.



[This message has been edited by roundhouser (edited 08-05-2003).]

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#93541 - 08/05/03 10:15 PM Re: Knives
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Glasheen:
...real men do use weapons.... I am sorry that the other person lost his father in a blade attack. Sucks. I think you all worry to much about the law and jail. You have the right to defend yourself.[/QUOTE]

Well, as they say, never bring a knife to a gunfight. No, my father wasn't armed, but I wish he had been and I have to agree that "real men do use weapons." Anybody who suffers from what Jeff Cooper calls hoplophobia (irrational fear of weaponry) ought to read his book, "To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth." Personally, I think that anyone who trains to be a serious all-around martial artist who doesn't learn something about gunfighting is either living in fantasyland or is in denial. This is not to imply that one needs to walk the streets packing, but in modern times (and ancient ones) the bad guys will be armed. As for worrying about the law, well, that's my job, in a way. One of my pressing legal concerns these days is how unfair the law is here in the state of New York about denying people the right to defend themselves in their own homes. Before he died, George Harrison was attacked in his own home by a knife-wielding assailant. Harrison whacked the guy with a lamp. I prefer something better than a lamp, but would rather have nunchaku than a gun by my bed because I don't have to worry about the kids shooting themselves with a pair of sticks. In New York, where I live, the law won't even allow that, a situation that I intend to remedy. Details at: http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257/nunchakucomp.html
and
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257/mvs.html

Sweeney


[This message has been edited by Sweeney (edited 08-05-2003).]

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#93542 - 08/05/03 10:34 PM Re: Knives
roundhouser Offline
Member

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 96
Loc: melbourne
Ed what exactly is your job.
Im with chen with the weapons stuff you shoudn't carry them the only time i would was if i was against more than 2 people.

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#93543 - 08/05/03 11:15 PM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
New York Penal Law does allow you to defend yourself with deadly physical force. Sec.35.15. Tried by twelve instead of carried by six. Also you are allowed to use deadly physical force against someone comitting arson. My job is in the military. You should read kill or be killed by Col. Rex Applegate. I thought this forum was street defense not Kung Fu theatre. I am afraid that you MA instructor has let you down Chen Chen. The bad guys do use weapons. And I would bring a knife to a gun fight. It's quicker and does not jam. But then you probably think I'll announce my intentions by getting into a stance and yelling KiYa and MuShu and all that shit. ED

[This message has been edited by Ed Glasheen (edited 08-05-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Ed Glasheen (edited 08-05-2003).]

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#93544 - 08/06/03 07:46 AM Re: Knives
HeadlessHorseman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Sleepy Hollow, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Glasheen:
...My job is in the military...And I would bring a knife to a gun fight. It's quicker and does not jam.[/QUOTE]

OK, maybe you ought to go to sick bay and ask them to up your dosage of anti-psychotics. Let's see: M-16 vs. Bowie knife at 50 yards...who's got the better odds? Oh, the guy with the knife. It's quicker and does not jam... [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#93545 - 08/06/03 08:22 AM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
I hope you find your head horseman. I didn't say I would go up against an M-16 at 500 yards dumbass. But up close, the knife rules! But I have to remind myself of the forum preschool MA's who do most of the posting. I'm sharing my experience with you all. Sorry if you don't like it. I can assure its real. But hey how many of you have even been outside of your own country. Watching TV does not count. Ed

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#93546 - 08/07/03 09:37 PM Re: Knives
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Glasheen:
New York Penal Law does allow you to defend yourself with deadly physical force. Sec.35.15.[/QUOTE]

Ed, since I'm a New York lawyer, I thought I'd clarify the use of deadly physical force under NYPL 35.15, which you cited correctly. In order to use DEADLY physical force you must either (1) reasonably believe that the other guy is using or is about to use DEADLY physical force or (2) reasonably believe that the person you are about to attack is committing or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy, or, under certain circumstances, burglary. Also, you have a duty to retreat first if you can reasonably do so, UNLESS you are in your own home.

I assume you knew all this, since you seem very well-informed and well-trained (if not well-mannered [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]), and this post is just to clarify it for the other readers. Justification of the use of force is a complex subject, but the question of "duty to retreat" came up in one of the other forums. Interestingly, although New York is pretty Draconian about weapons possession (even nunchaku in your home are strictly illegal, which is my pet peeve), it is (or so I'm told) one of the few states that has a statute expressly saying that you don't have a duty to retreat in your own home. And since you can keep a shotgun but not nunchaku next to your bed in this state, I assume that what all this means is that the legislature must have made a considered decision that it would be better to have burglars shot dead with 00 buck than temporarily incapacitated by a beating with a pair of wooden sticks... [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#93547 - 08/07/03 11:27 PM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Good post. The point being fear for yours or someone elses life. Also dead men tell no tails. So yes I did try to retreat but my path was blocked by the knife wielding subject and I blew his head off with my shotgun. Works for me.Ed

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#93548 - 08/08/03 08:04 AM Re: Knives
Sweeney Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 342
Loc: New York, USA
Thanks, Ed.

One of the reasons I studied nunchaku beginning at an early age is that it is a weapon that may be used effectively against a knife without necessarily killing. As I put it in my federal complaint in February:
[QUOTE]20. The nunchaku, unlike most other weapons, including firearms, knives, swords and all other penetrating weapons, is capable of being used in a restrained manner such that an opponent may be subdued without resorting to the use of deadly physical force.

21. The nunchaku, in comparison with most other arms, including firearms, is relatively safe and innocuous, such that a child or other person untrained in the weapon’s proper use would be unable to inflict serious injury upon him- or herself, either accidentally or intentionally.

22. Accordingly, nunchaku kept in the home, even if not secured in a locked compartment, are far less likely to be associated with serious injury or fatality than are most other weapons or even common household objects such as kitchen knives and scissors.[/QUOTE]


Full text at http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jmm257/nunchakucomp.html

Sweeney

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#93549 - 08/09/03 12:30 AM Re: Knives
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Ed, you're just a washed up lifer living out his violent dreams on the internet. You exist solely so we can see what rock bottom looks like.

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#93550 - 08/10/03 01:01 AM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Jumaji your absolutly right. And because you have found me out, you have won a free year supply of ass lube. Im sure it will come in handy with your many prison experiences and those that are coming. Say hi to big bubba! Ed

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#93551 - 08/10/03 11:58 AM Re: Knives
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I tell you what ED, since Im such an amature why dont you come teach me a lesson then big boy? You bring your screwdriver and Ill use it to attach your head back on after I remove it from your neck. You are the very bottom of the barrel. I would use your screwdriver to remove scum like you from the bottom of my shoe. I had no problem keeping it freindly but since you want to sling insults then Ill throw them right back in your face. And if you are a man then Ill show you exactly how amature I am, but when I defeat you, and I will, you can tell all your ex con prison bitch buddies that you lost to an amature. You're nothing.

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#93552 - 08/10/03 12:26 PM Re: Knives
Anonymous
Unregistered


For goodness sake people!

Ed, is there anyone left on this board you haven't upset? Most of us come here to learn stuff from each other. For goodness sake, if we are all so crap, find a board worthy of your vast knowledge and experience.

Chen tut tut to you for lowering yourself [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Sharon

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#93553 - 08/10/03 01:34 PM Re: Knives
Fighting Dwarf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 322
Loc: UK
Well said Sharon!

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#93554 - 08/11/03 09:39 AM Re: Knives
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Most of you just talk a bunch of BS. You do not learn anything from this or any other post. Some of you do make sense from time to time. And there a few that have this hang up with me being in the military. For those who are serious about learning, ignore my insults they are not directed towards you. For the rest , blow me. Ed

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#93555 - 08/11/03 10:56 AM Re: Knives
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Glasheen:
"Most of you just talk a bunch of BS".

Then why do you bother talking to us? We are obviously not worthy. Try another board.

"You do not learn anything from this or any other post. Some of you do make sense from time to time."

How kind!

"And there a few that have this hang up with me being in the military."

No hang up about the military here. Chen is also military and I have great respect for his opinions. I do have a hang up with your attitude, that's all.

"For those who are serious about learning, ignore my insults they are not directed towards you. For the rest , blow me.Ed"

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]
Sharon



[This message has been edited by wadowoman (edited 08-11-2003).]

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#93556 - 08/11/03 01:10 PM Re: Knives
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Oh dear looks like the children have started misbehaving again when I had my back turned.
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG] . I've had this conversation with some of you individualy and with the forum as a whole on many previous occasions. So can anyone help me out? Is it an inability to read that is the problem or simply that some of you are taking the p*ss out of me? Sort it out!

Mr V

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#93557 - 08/12/03 03:21 PM Re: Knives
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mr V,
I appologise to you for allowing myself to retaliate.
I will try harder to ignore people I consider rude.
I certainly had no intention of taking the p**s out of you.
Sharon

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#93558 - 08/12/03 04:57 PM Re: Knives
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
OOOPS sorry Judderman. Edited your message rather than post my own. Have to be careful when the system lets you do it [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/redface.gif[/IMG]


No apologies required Sharon. The main participants in the "playground" style slanging matches know who they are. It really shouldn't be that hard to disagree with someone and say so without resorting to purile name calling. If someone offends any of you that much, just laugh to yourself about how much of a tosser they are and leave it at that. It is not necessary to share your displeasure with the rest of us. Thanks. End of sermon.

Regds
Mr V



[This message has been edited by MrVigerous (edited 08-12-2003).]

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#93559 - 08/12/03 09:38 PM Re: Knives
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I apologize to any and all I offended. Except Ed. I find it disturbing that you are a sensei ED. Obviously you were not taught very well.

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#93560 - 08/13/03 04:58 AM Re: Knives
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by judderman:
OOOPS sorry Judderman. Edited your message rather than post my own. Have to be careful when the system lets you do it [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/redface.gif[/IMG]

Regds
Mr V

[This message has been edited by MrVigerous (edited 08-12-2003).]
[/QUOTE]

Really Mr. V.

You ought to be more careful.

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Budo.

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#93561 - 08/14/03 01:53 PM Re: Knives
Anonymous
Unregistered


Slain man's 911 call indicates road rage

Tue Aug 12, 7:27 AM ET
By Deanna Boyd, StarTelegram Staff Writer
FORT WORTH - A Garland man who was found stabbed to death in a Luby's parking lot this month was on the phone to a 911 dispatcher when he was attacked in what police believe was a road-rage killing.


Juan Gallegos never talked to the Haltom City dispatcher, but police say the approximately 15-second telephone call recorded the killers' voices and the gruesome sounds of Gallegos' slaying.
Despite the call, no officers were sent to the area in northeast Fort Worth. Now, the Haltom City Police Department is investigating why.
Detective Jeff Gray, a spokesman for Haltom City police, said the 911 dispatcher received information concerning only the location of the phone tower through which the cellphone call was routed.

Just thought this would add to the discussion.

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#93562 - 01/19/04 05:52 PM Re: Knives
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
My brother shipped out Jan. 4th for Operation-Piss-Off-Anyone-We-Haven't-Already. Seems like Bush won't rest until at least one member of my family dies in Iraq. Anyway, I got him this: http://www.coldsteel.com/38ck.html
as a going away present. Man, this knife is about as impressive as a useful field knife can get. Almost 1/4 inch thick, razor sharp, but with a nice thick bevel to the edge, well balanced. Only concern is it's high carbon steel, so it may rust, but hey, he's gonna be in the desert. If you need a GOOD field knife, you couldn't do much better for the money.

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#93563 - 01/19/04 06:47 PM Re: Knives
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Nice. My good wishes to your family.

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#93564 - 02/05/04 08:14 PM Re: Knives
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA

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#93565 - 02/05/04 08:15 PM Re: Knives
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
buhleted

[This message has been edited by Jamoni (edited 02-05-2004).]

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#93566 - 02/12/04 10:50 AM Re: Knives
kman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 368
Loc: minnesota
I keep a kabar reproduction kukhri on my web gear and a Gerber Guardian on my belt or in a boot while in the field. I've practiced the Gurhka style decapitating backhand stroke for which the kukhri was designed. K-

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#93567 - 02/13/04 09:00 PM Re: Knives
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
I love the gerber guardian! Had one for a while til my first sgt took it in an inspection. Bastard. Great knife. BTW, WHAT service are you in that they let you carry a Khukri on your gear? You GOTTA be a brit!

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#93568 - 02/14/04 11:59 AM Re: Knives
kman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 368
Loc: minnesota
Jamoni, Hard to imagine the first sergeant taking poperty during an inspection. Thats called stealing. Never happened to me during 11 yrs on active duty. I did see some gov poperty get taken but thats a far cry. To answer your question,,no I'm not a brit. I'm in the Minnesota National guard. My unit gets a fair amount of leeway as to what we carry and how we configure our load bearing vests. As long as were in the field no one gets to excited. During a recent activation pulling security at the airport we had to clean up the lbv's so as not to shock the traveling public. (as if a loaded M-16 doesnt?) Was nice to have the little guardian stashed behind an ammo pouch. K-

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#93569 - 02/15/04 12:54 AM Re: Knives
nindz Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 30
wow! MR V, we train using spyderco guntings too!

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#93570 - 02/15/04 07:54 AM Re: Knives
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Kman, nice use of an ammo pouch. I don't know why they call them that. I've used em to store food, cigarettes, keys, multi-tools, flashlights, baby-buds, a .25 automatic, and just about anything you can imagine, EXCEPT ammo. Anyway, the way the 1st Sgt. put it was like this: If he reports the knife officially, I get a weapons charge and a bad mark in my record. If he just makes it disappear... no problem. I was cool with that. It's okay tho, cause when i ETS-ed i slit open his CV boots on his minivan, stuffed them with sand, and electrical taped them shut again. Also put about a million pinholes in his radiator hoses, and just for fun dumped a box of matchsticks down his exhaust pipe. And one of my buddies claims to have been nailing his wife.

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#93571 - 02/15/04 03:18 PM Re: Knives
kman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 368
Loc: minnesota
Jamoni,,I said BEHIND the ammo pouch. On our LBV's the pouch is sewn on as to create a tunnel behind it. Knife goes in the tunnel,tied down at base with a piece of cord. Just the tip of the handle protrudes at top. And BTW there most certainly was a loaded mag in the pouch. Nice job on the 1sg's truck. He was a fool to lose the confidence of the men he was supposed to lead.

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#93572 - 02/16/04 08:27 PM Re: Knives
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Oh, I got you. You just tuck it in the loop. Nice. We had LBE, not LBV. Are you/were you combat arms? Cause I was just a forward support guy. We called ourselves the world's most dangerous machine shop. I carried an M249, so my ammo wouldn't FIT in my pouch. hehehe. Anyway, I usually carried my big knife upside down on my left LBE suspender, and a cheapy folder dummy corded and dropped in a pocket. Ever go in to a pawnshop/surplus store and see the bucket of crap knives? I would buy a whole bucket before FTX, because of the inevitable lame-o's who would "borrow" my knife only to never return it.

[This message has been edited by Jamoni (edited 02-16-2004).]

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#93573 - 02/17/04 12:10 AM Re: Knives
kman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 368
Loc: minnesota
Jamoni,,11 yrs active duty as infantry (airborne) currently a 19D cav scout on a Brigade recon team.

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#93574 - 02/17/04 06:13 PM Re: Knives
WaywardMonk Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 4
Loc: Nevada
I am somewhat new to this forum but must admit to being surprised by this thread. I have always believed that every persons ultimate right, if not duty, is to defend their life against aggression and so if that means carrying anything from a padlock with a lanyard on up to a Barrett .50 cal the you do it. As for enraging or upsetting your attacker by pulling a weapon, the very fact they are attacking you seems to preclude having to consider that and to escalation I would quote Bruce Lee " If a man slaps me then I punch him, if he punches me I break his bones, if he breaks my bones I kill him ". This may seem like brinkmanship but let's face it, by the time someone lays their hands on you it past the " talk them out of it stage ". As for weapons being the purvue of the weak... yes, you see they are weak or not trained and therefore need that weapon to even the odds, and to be honest no matter how well trained in unarmed combat you are, when you go from one on one to two, three, four on one it is foolhardy not to even the odds in your favor. What if you are with your untrained wife and two small children when surrounded those four thugs? I would also like to point out to those in the UK that the majority of attacks in America are with weapons and while it would be nice if it were otherwise it is not.

Stay safe.

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#93575 - 02/17/04 06:59 PM Re: Knives
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Kman, Cav scout, huh? I was in 2d Armored Cav. Regiment, consisting almost entirely of Cav scouts. Some weird experiment/desperate attempt to save the Regiment from decommisioning. Much respect to you. DTA/CYA

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#93576 - 04/10/04 06:57 PM Re: Knives
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_...hd.com2y ahoo&c m_cat=shopping&cm_pla=prod&cm_ite=prod

Don't know if this link will work, but I just got one of these, and it's the best $10 I've ever spent.
If the link doesn't work, go to Homedepot.com and search for "Husky knife".
[This message has been edited by Jamoni (edited 04-10-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Jamoni (edited 04-13-2004).]

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#93577 - 04/13/04 01:27 PM Re: Knives
Wanderlei Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/03/04
Posts: 4
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Okay Ed here we go....

First thing: If your not EXTREMELY skilled at using knifes/defending against knives, you should NEVER fuck with a blade. Seriously, its just too much of a risk. Its not like in the movies, you can get your ass killed man.

Second thing:

If you carry a knife you have to be 100% prepared to use it, or else you will end up in a pool of your own blood in no time cause you hesitated. Are you really prepared to kill a robber just for your wallet?

Third thing:

In a fight, if you pull a knife your attackers will most surely pull theirs. If you cant talk your way out of a situation then just punch the first and maybe the second guy with all you've got. And then if there are more coming: RUN YOUR ASS OUT OF THERE. No kidding, if there are more then three guys coming at you you will get seriously injured if you dont. Im not saying you should be a coward, of course you have to stand up for yourself, but sometimes you just have to drop the pride to save your life.


Summary:

Carying a knife just for "self defense" is STUPID. If you carry one, then it should be for extreme situations only when cant get out of it even by running. And dont get cocky just cause you have a blade, your attackers probably have knives too.

Instead of carrying a knife, go take boxing lessons and learn how to punch hard and fast. That and a good running will keep you alive in most of situations without escalating them.

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#93578 - 04/13/04 06:04 PM Re: Knives
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Wanderlei, there are other threads devoted to the topics you mention. Please take the time to find them. Your ideas are welcome, but this thread was started to talk about the knives themselves, not the logic or ethics of their use as weapons. Thank you.

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#93579 - 04/13/04 06:20 PM Re: Knives
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
Ed is a professional soldier and has used knives in combat and extensively in training.

I am sure he is aware of all of this wanderlei.

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#93580 - 04/13/04 09:58 PM Re: Knives
Goju-Ryu Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/04
Posts: 54
Loc: canada
I carry none.

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#93581 - 04/19/04 11:11 AM Re: Knives
Anpadh Offline
Member

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 162
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Does anyone have any idea what a Kaama is? I may have mis-spelled it as I have only heard the word, never seen it spelled. Basically, it is scythe-like blade with 4 holes in it, attached to an 8-inch or 10-inch handle. My daughter learns the use of it in her MA class, but it seems so ridiculous to me, that I can't imagine why anyone would want to bother learning it. I can imagine someone attacking with a commando knife or even a butcher-knife, but a scythe? If anyone has any clue about why any MA teacher would use such a silly weapon to train students, please e-mail me at anpadh@hotmail.com. Thanks.

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#93582 - 04/19/04 11:37 AM Re: Knives
still wadowoman Offline
Improved beefier techno-prat

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 3420
Loc: Residence:UK- Heart:Md, USA
For the same reason that some styles teach nunchukkas and sword. You can't carry any of them on the street, but they are traditional martial arts weapons.

Training with weapons can improve co-ordination, they can teach you to defend yourself against more regular wepons and (most importantly) it is fun.

If you are still unsure about your daughter learning this, speak to her instructor. If he is a good one, he will not mind at all.
Sharon

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#93583 - 04/19/04 06:55 PM Re: Knives
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
I doubt very much the chance of me using a weapon in "real life".

I would bet on the person who trained in weapons in a fight that degenerated into using botles, sticks etc.

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#93584 - 04/19/04 07:51 PM Re: Knives
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I don't carry one anymore really. I've come to the conclusion that for self-defense, there's not much reason to.

Carrying a blade with you will only serve to introduce a weapon into every encounter. Whether it be used by you or your opponent is beside the point.

Carrying a blade for an empty hand affair isn't something the courts would look favorably upon. You can get prison time that way.

Thinking that you can use a blade against another knifer isn't realistic from the stand-point that, a knifer who's after you for whatever reason, will not let you see the blade until it's too late (if you could see the blade to begin with, wouldn't it make more sense just to run??).

Most people don't realize what's going on until they've been hit by it anyway. Sometimes not even then. There have been occurrances where people felt like they had only taken a hard punch when being stabbed (not having seen the blade of course).

In my opinion, it makes more sense to train empty hand versus the blade, as that's a much more probable scenario than would be blade vs. blade. This ain't West-Side Story...


-John

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#93585 - 04/20/04 01:28 AM Re: Knives
still wadowoman Offline
Improved beefier techno-prat

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 3420
Loc: Residence:UK- Heart:Md, USA
I agree that it is more useful from a practical point of view to train empty handed against a weapon (especially in UK where we can not carry weapons anyway), but I still enjoy training with weapons.

Sharon

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#93586 - 04/20/04 07:30 AM Re: Knives
Yoseikan Student Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JKogas:
I don't carry one anymore really. I've come to the conclusion that for self-defense, there's not much reason to.

Carrying a blade with you will only serve to introduce a weapon into every encounter. Whether it be used by you or your opponent is beside the point.

Carrying a blade for an empty hand affair isn't something the courts would look favorably upon. You can get prison time that way.

Thinking that you can use a blade against another knifer isn't realistic from the stand-point that, a knifer who's after you for whatever reason, will not let you see the blade until it's too late (if you could see the blade to begin with, wouldn't it make more sense just to run??).

Most people don't realize what's going on until they've been hit by it anyway. Sometimes not even then. There have been occurrances where people felt like they had only taken a hard punch when being stabbed (not having seen the blade of course).

In my opinion, it makes more sense to train empty hand versus the blade, as that's a much more probable scenario than would be blade vs. blade. This ain't West-Side Story...


-John
[/QUOTE]

Good post

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#93587 - 04/21/04 08:50 PM Re: Knives
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Sharon --

Oh I like training with weapons as well. It's great fun and is useful in many ways. I train single stick which is in most ways, identical to knife work (the stick being simply a long knife). It's enjoyable, but once I ALMOST pulled a knife on someone I was have face-to-face with. I had the knife in my pocket (a clipit) and thought about drawing it. Needless to say I'm glad I didn't. It would have only caused a bad situation to get worse.

The thing is, just carrying that blade presents that very sort of temptation to draw it when things like a simple exchange of words occurrs. From that day on I never carried one again.

Now days, I work tirelessly on my empty hand game. It takes so much time just to perfect that, that I don't have the time to do much of anything else.

Take care all,

-John

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#93588 - 10/31/08 09:27 PM Re: Knives [Re: Ed Glasheen]
kempo223 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 2
Quote:

I hope you find your head horseman. I didn't say I would go up against an M-16 at 500 yards dumbass. But up close, the knife rules! But I have to remind myself of the forum preschool MA's who do most of the posting. I'm sharing my experience with you all. Sorry if you don't like it. I can assure its real. But hey how many of you have even been outside of your own country. Watching TV does not count. Ed


This guy is a real [censored]!!!

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#93589 - 11/01/08 01:57 PM Re: Knives [Re: Ed Glasheen]
oldsteel68 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 4
Quote:

Since this is a passionate topic, What knife do you prefer to carry?

I carry a Benchmade 9050 or a Gerber Yari. Ed




I carry a standard easy open pocket knife. Blade in under 4' as that is the maximum size allowed in my city.

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#93590 - 11/04/08 10:31 PM Re: Knives [Re: oldsteel68]
Ilove2Hit Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 264
Loc: Athens, Greece
2 butterfly knivs
2 iron fists
1 magnum 44
1 9mm
1 saw-off shotgun
1 chain
gloves with quecksilver at the knuckels
a ring with a spike so i can crack what i am hitting (just in case i am not fast enough to pull a knive or a gun or smthg)
and i got some metal plates in the front of my shoes in order to be able to kick harder.

why just carry a knive? ..
_________________________
do what you say and say what you do no pain no gain

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#93591 - 11/05/08 03:22 AM Re: Knives [Re: Ilove2Hit]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

2 butterfly knivs
2 iron fists
1 magnum 44
1 9mm
1 saw-off shotgun
1 chain
gloves with quecksilver at the knuckels
a ring with a spike so i can crack what i am hitting (just in case i am not fast enough to pull a knive or a gun or smthg)
and i got some metal plates in the front of my shoes in order to be able to kick harder.

why just carry a knive? ..




Really? A sawed off shotgun? What brand? How short is the barrel? Did you cut it off?

What kind of .44 or 9mm?

Why do you need all the other sutff and guns?
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#93592 - 11/06/08 08:39 AM Re: Knives [Re: BrianS]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Because he's playing Doom, Brian. Why else? The hardest part is pressing the right number button to get the correct weapon to draw, because if you pull out a chain when you're up against the boss on level 3, then you're toast (tip: hit #7 for the shotgun instead)
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#93593 - 11/06/08 11:18 AM Re: Knives [Re: JoelM]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Doom.....

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#93594 - 11/12/08 01:00 PM Re: Knives [Re: JKogas]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Good post John.

I agree totally with this, and my experiance backs this up as well. When I was working as a bouncer, some of the guys carried as well. And I took to carrying one myself. It does nothing but make a bad situation worse.

As an anecdote: one night someone has a steel pen (one of those 'self defence pens') and was attempting to stab another patron in the neck with it. I was very tempted, intially, to use the knife. Instead, I chose not to, and was able to subdue the attacker without recourse to my knife. Had I not done so, I'd probably be in jail now (and probably have a longer sentence than the guy with the pen).

I'll never carry one again, at least not in this country. The temptation to use it is just too great.

--Chris


Edited by Ames (11/12/08 01:01 PM)
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#93595 - 11/17/08 10:43 AM Re: Knives [Re: Ilove2Hit]
TheCrab Offline
Scum
Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 467
Loc: QLD Australia
Quote:

2 butterfly knivs
2 iron fists
1 magnum 44
1 9mm
1 saw-off shotgun
1 chain
gloves with quecksilver at the knuckels
a ring with a spike so i can crack what i am hitting (just in case i am not fast enough to pull a knive or a gun or smthg)
and i got some metal plates in the front of my shoes in order to be able to kick harder.

why just carry a knive? ..




your a doofus

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#93596 - 11/24/08 06:14 PM Re: Knives [Re: TheCrab]
Ilove2Hit Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 264
Loc: Athens, Greece
hmmkay
_________________________
do what you say and say what you do no pain no gain

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#93597 - 11/28/08 03:14 PM Re: Knives [Re: Ames]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
Quote:

Good post John.

I agree totally with this, and my experiance backs this up as well. When I was working as a bouncer, some of the guys carried as well. And I took to carrying one myself. It does nothing but make a bad situation worse.

As an anecdote: one night someone has a steel pen (one of those 'self defence pens') and was attempting to stab another patron in the neck with it. I was very tempted, intially, to use the knife. Instead, I chose not to, and was able to subdue the attacker without recourse to my knife. Had I not done so, I'd probably be in jail now (and probably have a longer sentence than the guy with the pen).

I'll never carry one again, at least not in this country. The temptation to use it is just too great.

--Chris




good post

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