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#9279 - 07/28/03 08:50 AM Re: self defense
ninja-raiden Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/03
Posts: 922
Headbutt em. Right in the nose, and realy hard.

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#9280 - 07/28/03 09:01 AM Re: self defense
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
You make a good point, Mr. Vigerous, but... I have used both sets of techniques in my own street encounters, and one thing I have learned is that, when somone is out to seriously hurt or kill you, you better drop them in the first couple of hits without even the slightest chance of them getting up.

As I've stated, people in my area (and it gets more violent outside my area), if you fight back, you better WIN or your ass is getting stabbed or shot.

These guys know how to take a hit, they have honed their technqiues through constant street struggles. A jaw punch just pisses people off in my area, it doesn't often end a fight.

Now, move that punch up from the jaw to the temple, and maybe I'll consider it. Also, to quote Bruce Lee "you have a foot of body for every inch of jaw" to shoot for. I would much rather shatter their floating ribs than punch them in the jaw (though I may use a jaw punch as a set up for that, but never do I rely on it to KO somone).

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#9281 - 07/28/03 09:59 AM Re: self defense
ninja-raiden Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/03
Posts: 922
Whether you want to believe it or not ender, a good jaw hit works better than it sounds.

Anyway, the headbutt is a realy underlooked upon attack. The situation you describe would be a perfect oponening for it because 1)the aggresor will be expecting the typical swing to the head and 2)you can execute it much quicker than a head punch. Once you crack the suckers nose, he's all yours for the next few seconds. Throw him on the ground after about 2 good stomach punches, which should be pretty easy, because he will most likely grab his nose in shock. Once on the ground, just kick him in the stomach. He'll be outa breath for atleast a minute, which should give you the time to walk away. Just make sure you don't walk away with your back turned toward him.

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#9282 - 07/28/03 10:42 AM Re: self defense
piccolo Offline
Member

Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 70
Loc: sarasota, Fl, U.S.A
How would you get close enough to get in a good headbutt? Just wondering.

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#9283 - 07/28/03 12:29 PM Re: self defense
Big Bear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1068
Loc: Northern Ireland
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ninja-raiden:
Whether you want to believe it or not ender, a good jaw hit works better than it sounds.

Anyway, the headbutt is a realy underlooked upon attack. The situation you describe would be a perfect oponening for it because 1)the aggresor will be expecting the typical swing to the head and 2)you can execute it much quicker than a head punch. Once you crack the suckers nose, he's all yours for the next few seconds. Throw him on the ground after about 2 good stomach punches, which should be pretty easy, because he will most likely grab his nose in shock. Once on the ground, just kick him in the stomach. He'll be outa breath for atleast a minute, which should give you the time to walk away. Just make sure you don't walk away with your back turned toward him.
[/QUOTE]

Ninja i hope this doesn't offend but rather than risking a head but that in my opinion means you to sacrafice speed for power, why not try to break their nose with a punch or a palm heel? It may not have the same power but its so much faster than a head butt that could be telegraphed.

Again no disrespect is meant.

Regards

Big Bear

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#9284 - 07/28/03 12:32 PM Re: self defense
jamiew Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 12
Loc: shoreham, Sussex, UK
I would maybe strike with a head strike with the intention of distracting them, maybe by hitting the nose and making the eyes water, or I'd hit the shins and then run for it!
but thats just me!

Jamie

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#9285 - 07/28/03 12:49 PM Re: self defense
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Ender

Sorry but:

QUOTE:
" you better drop them in the first couple of hits without even the slightest chance of them getting up."

Correct me if im wrong but causing knockout or semi conscious daze followed by a further technique that incapacitates or causes complete knockout gives you exactly what you are suggesting. Basic physiology here folks, the brain is the control center; cause it to "short circuit" and major motor function ceases. I don't think im going out on a limb here or breaking new self defence ground to insist that a shot to the jaw is the best percentage shot to achieve this.

QUOTE:
" These guys know how to take a hit, they have honed their technqiues through constant street struggles. A jaw punch just pisses people off in my area, it doesn't often end a fight."

Sorry to say this but if you are finding this to be the case then you simply don't punch hard enough or accurately enough. You are talking about tossers on the street not pro heavyweight boxers who spend hours conditioning their neck muscles. Absolutely ANYONE can be knocked out if you generate sufficient force and target it correctly.

QUOTE:
"I would much rather shatter their floating ribs than punch them in the jaw (though I may use a jaw punch as a set up for that, but never do I rely on it to KO somone)."

Ok so maybe you cant RELY on the KO, but why in God's name just tap them on the jaw and then put all your effort into cracking a rib. Cracking a rib or two hurts certainly, but you usualy feel it when the adrenalin has warn off and often after you have kicked the stuffing out of someone who wasted their first vital shot tapping you on the jaw....

I'm basing my comments on proven real life experiences where the head shot NOT the body shot or the eye flick or the throat jab is consistently the deciding factor. Go and work on the door for a few nights and see how much of this nice MA theory works.

Regds
Mr V



[This message has been edited by MrVigerous (edited 07-28-2003).]

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#9286 - 07/28/03 01:42 PM Re: self defense
Anonymous
Unregistered


I mean when you feel threatened, when you feel that no amount of talking will solve the issue, when the other person just started to pick on you as he wanted to let off steam and thought you'd be an easy target.
Ok, so the enraged postal worker is coming at you with a special delivery-head butt or elbow to jaw or temple.
Head butt is a very fast,powerful attack if done correctly.
Use either to set up more attacks.Never rely on just one.

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#9287 - 07/28/03 01:47 PM Re: self defense
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Mr.V, I udnerstand and respect that you have alot of experience, and I greatly value your opinion (honestly I do).

BUT, the kind of people I am talking about are drug dealers, etc, and are usually high or drunk (and thereofre will not feel pain).

Don't get me wrong, I don't underestimate the jaw punch, I am simply just more comfortable training maiming techniques, JUST IN CASE I get a guy who has a jaw made of solid wood (and there ARE boxers in my area, who DO work out alot, and are absolutely HUGE).

I understand the point your trying to make, and I agree with it to a point. HOWEVER, if the jaw punch doesn't affect them (whcih I have seen with my own two eyes many times), they might just get pissed off, pulla knife, and stick you, and that's the way the streets work near me.

I just prefer not to F*ck around. Why waste the time on a technique that MIGHT work (if thrown correctly)over a technique that WILL work (if thrown correctly).

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#9288 - 07/28/03 02:07 PM Re: self defense
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ender:
BUT, the kind of people I am talking about are drug dealers, etc, and are usually high or drunk (and thereofre will not feel pain).[/QUOTE]

Ender, it is a matter of physiology, not narcotic influence. If you disrupt the normal workings of the nervous system, it doesn't matter who they are.

I still find it dificult to see how a throat strike will stop someone, without killing them.

Unless this is what you want to do.

Budo.

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