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#92365 - 04/22/05 12:20 AM Re: Boxing vs. Wing Chun
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by MAGr:
JKogas,
A boxer against a WC guy (who has been trained prperly) does not stand a chance.
In my opinion a boxer does not stand a chance with most MA, because boxing is limited.
I would take out his knees before he even got close enough to throw a hook. Lets say i didnt use legs, then jabs go to the centre line which the WC guy will dominate, and hooks leave your centre line open for the WC to just pummel you.
[/QUOTE]

I'm not JKogas, but I can't ignore this post and especially the first few sentences. All too often I hear in gyms and dojos (or read on this forum) guys talking about "if I were fighting a boxer I would do this and dominate," or "if I were fighting a grappler I would just avoid going on the ground."

It is sooooo easy to say that type of stuff sitting behind a keyboard or lounging around in your dojo where everyone (or at least the majority) of students there are learning the same style as you and share your biased opinions and don't expect you to field test your theories. But if you say that same type of stuff to a boxer, who spends a good deal of time learning techniques then testing them in the ring, you may not have the same confidence as compared to yapping at an online forum. He, or she, would most likely ask you to prove it in the ring or out of it.

This goes back to the old saying, "It's easier said than done."

[This message has been edited by kenjutsu n00b (edited 04-22-2005).]

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#92366 - 04/22/05 05:37 AM Re: Boxing vs. Wing Chun
Anonymous
Unregistered


This is very interesting, I understand why so many of you think that Wing Chun has "obvious" flaws - because you are not actually talking about Wing Chun as I understand it. wing chun should not be a "style" but a concept.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by senseilou:
Wing Chun is very defensive oriented, and gives certain people problems, not everybody, not style, but some people. If people have trouble against it, why not see what it has to offer.[/QUOTE]

Wing Chun is not a defensive system or concept, the total opposite, it is an attacking system. It has no blocks and is all about intercepting and simultaneous counters

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
I also found that Muay Thai style elbows and knees work well when you do get trapped up especially the knees as WC utilizes very few kicking techniques[/QUOTE]

Wing Chun involves elbows and knees as well, using the part of your body closest to the opponent to deliver the attack - if this is the elbow, then you use the elbow. The Wing Chun I have learnt does have plenty of kicking, but there is only need to use the most efficient and non-telegraphic kicks. No point trying a roundhouse because you'll be on the floor before you are even half way through the kick

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
WC philosophy is to never step backwards,always go forward or stand your ground. Because of this they utilize a very rigid fighting stance.

Attack his mobility as he has little anyways, attack his balance with forward momentum, make him move back, he isnt accustomed to it.
[/QUOTE]

I know that this is what you were taught, but you would do well to forget this mantra (perhaps this is a reason why moved on to something else? because you correctly felt that this is not a useful concept to bring into a fight with you?). This "rule" is clearly part of a "style" and not a concept, or at least not a useful concept. It has become doctrine to whoever is teaching this. If you come across someone who says they do Wing Chun but they have terrible footwork and use a rigid fighting stance, then kick his ass and tell him he does not do Wing Chun

[QUOTE]Originally posted by justhithim:
Why do you think that Bruce Lee sought insight else where besides his traditional Wing Chun training? [/QUOTE]

Bruce Lee never finished learning Wing Chun from Wong or Yip Man.

---------------------------

As for the topic starter. I am not sure what to say as to how to get around the problems you had during your sparring, you are lucky the guy did not know how to dispose of your kicking game as well! There is no "technique" to plan and execute in any fight, they are organic things. I would have suggested that you look into Wing Chun training in order to absorb some of the concepts for yourself...but it seems like there is a lot of bullshit out there waving the flag of Wing Chun.

If you can, keep sparring with this guy (and anyone else who gives you problems), play the session over in your head afterwards when you have time to digest what was happening and the principles behind his success/failure. Learn from each other, it is good to be challenged in the controlled sparring environment and to develop your own skills. If he is struggling against your kicking then explain to him what weakness you have seen that is giving you an advantage...if he can improve then this will force you to do the same. Good luck

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#92367 - 04/22/05 08:36 AM Re: Boxing vs. Wing Chun
Yoseikan Student Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MAGr:

In my opinion a boxer does not stand a chance with most MA, because boxing is limited.
[/QUOTE]

Ah.

I'm sure you have extensive first hand empirical knowledge of boxing vs 'martial arts' and bags of experience of training with many boxers of all different sorts of caliber and that strong EVIDENCE leads you to hold this opinion.

Lets not for a moment think its what you want to believe it simply and purely because you are a martial artist.

[This message has been edited by Yoseikan Student (edited 04-22-2005).]

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#92368 - 04/22/05 09:12 AM Re: Boxing vs. Wing Chun
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yoseikan Student:
Ah.

I'm sure you have extensive first hand empirical knowledge of boxing vs 'martial arts' and bags of experience of training with many boxers of all different sorts of caliber and that strong EVIDENCE leads you to hold this opinion.

Lets not for a moment think its what you want to believe it simply and purely because you are a martial artist.

[This message has been edited by Yoseikan Student (edited 04-22-2005).]
[/QUOTE]


I said in my opinion!!

I have never fought with a boxer,
But i am saying it is an inferior form of self defence because it fails to incorporate anything in the system appart from punching.
Is that not valid?
Gimme a break.
I know that it depends on the person and Tyson would kick my ass.
But the above still holds!

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#92369 - 04/22/05 09:36 AM Re: Boxing vs. Wing Chun
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have fought boxers on the street and in the ring, there best in the ring and at mid-range. Of the sports and at mid range they are awesome pending there skill level and training.

But on the street and not a season street fighters they are vurnerable to other ranges and things they commonly are not prepared for, like leg kicks, strikes to the back, being spun, elbowed and kneed in clinches, open hand strikes, protecting their lower body and takedowns and it goes on from there stomps, locks, chokes and breaks.

Boxing as a base to grow from is great but by itself against any M-art be it Wing Chun or Karate it lacks alot. In gloves in the ring boxing would have an advantage if U are fighting by boxing rules.

I seen wrestlers thrash boxers on the street, I've also seen some boxers knock some large wrestler out cold in street fights. In the fights were the boxer loses, he able to walk away, bloodied nosed. Because the ex-high school Wrestler doesn't know how to hurt.

But when he wins rarely does his opponent walks away on steady feet. They are tough and explosive in there range.

[This message has been edited by Neko456 (edited 04-22-2005).]

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#92370 - 04/22/05 09:59 AM Re: Boxing vs. Wing Chun
Anonymous
Unregistered


As for fighting a WC stylist you need to bomb from outisde stepping off the center line with your body as you come in, you need to use your foot work to get around his forward gate or charge and attack from the off angle catching him as he turns to you in an effort to protect his center line.

I find mis-directions and fakes to work, also if an attempt to trap your hands try taking an half step back, don't push forward or up. You should bump him with your shoulder then sweep & double punch.

A simple hand fake that has worked for me is the lead jab or Oi-tzuki and a hooking over hand right coming under or over his high check. Your body movement going behind his body, so he has to turn to face you.

I also find them suceptable to quick front leg kicks, the power kick with the rear leg they most of the time block it with their Oblet kick and strike at the same time.

They seem faster because they are always doing two things at the same time, deflect and strike or short rolling multiple strikes but they can be countered by Off rythum combinations, hooking power shots and fakes and gos.

I'm more impressed with their stick legs stuff, though they are famous for their hands.

[This message has been edited by Neko456 (edited 04-22-2005).]

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#92371 - 04/22/05 11:05 AM Re: Boxing vs. Wing Chun
Anonymous
Unregistered


You know that still there are some in here that are still saying that either wing chun is bad and that boxing is bad. I have trained in many different styles and have been experimenting with a fighting system that implements martial arts in every day street fights and MMA fighting in the ring. The styles that I have formal and extensive training is in muy thai, wing chun, boxing, jujitsu. and im still very open to any other of the styles out there. And in my days fighting on the street and in the bars the best fighting system is the mixed one. Because you never know what the envoirment is going to be like. For a wing chun man all they need a a small space to operate and utilize the inside fighting. And using the man sau, wou sau going into any situation is a great offense/defense. And im not saying that wing chun guys are going to win or lose the fight. But for this martial artist using a combination on the street or in the ring keeps you open minded and ready for the fight in any situation. As life, it is always changing as should your out look on martial arts. A change is sometimes good for some. So look into it all of you na sayer's and check out the arts and actually give them a chance by trying out some techniqes or some classes and use it like it was intened to be...information. NEVER STOP LEARNING!

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#92372 - 04/22/05 11:26 AM Re: Boxing vs. Wing Chun
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rougewarrior:
So look into it all of you na sayer's and check out the arts and actually give them a chance by trying out some techniqes or some classes and use it like it was intened to be...information. NEVER STOP LEARNING![/QUOTE]

Hear Hear!
I agree
But my reason for posting is to ask you if your profile name is Rougewarrior
or you actually meant to write ROGUEwarrior.
You know Rouge is red in french?
If you meant that then i m sorry for the pointless post.

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#92373 - 04/22/05 12:14 PM Re: Boxing vs. Wing Chun
Anonymous
Unregistered


HA! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] well I picked my name after one of my favorite authors and men that I look up to RICHARD MARCINKO the Rouge Warrior a navy seal commander and now private security cosultant. He is a great and funny man that has many years of being a ROUGE WARRIOR meaning that he goes by his own rules and gets the job done. He also has a ten commandments that I live by and teach by so here they are for your enjoyment THE ROUGE WARRIORS TEN COMMANDMENTS 1.I am a war lord and the wrathful god of combat and I will always lead from the front, not from the rear. 2.I will treat you all alike--just like crap! 3.Thou shalt not do nothing that I will not do myself first, and thus will you be created warriors in my own deadly image. 4.I shall punish thy bodies because the more sweatest in training, the less bleedest in combat. 5.Indeed,if thou hurteth in thy efforts and thou suffer painful dings, thou are doing it right. 6.Thou hast not like it---thou hast just do it. 7.Thou shalt keep it simple stupid. 8.Thou shalt never assume. 9.Verily,thou art not paid for thy methods,but for thy results by which meaneth thou shalt kill thine enemy by any means available before he killeth you. 10.Thou shalt, in thy warrior's mind and soul, always remember my ultimate and final commandment: there are no rules--thou shalt win at all cost.

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#92374 - 04/22/05 12:21 PM Re: Boxing vs. Wing Chun
Anonymous
Unregistered


I still think you should check the spelling of your name.
I m pretty sure you meant to write
ROGUE warrior
not
Rouge warrior

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