I had the honor and pleasure to train under one of Royce Gracies Black Belts. He was a kind, gracious,guy and a hell of a fighter. he had great respect for all arts and became a student of Judo after getting his Black Belt in BJJ. He was always respectful and helpful in sharing his art. I actually met Royce and he too was a true gentleman, not judgemental at all, and truly a very interesting person to be around. Please don't judge an art by one bad apple(I'm sure you all know by now who that is). BJJ is a good art, and has its place in the martial arts. For me, Sambo was a better fit, but I have all the respect for both the Gracies and the Machado's. There is another group, Hawaiian Combat Jujutsu, that incorporates BJJ, and 'Jazz Inglesias' is a great martial artist and wonderful guy. He too is very sharing with information, and I have seen him at seminars train in other styles himself. These arts are strong and good in their own right, but great compliments to other training. Lets not take a view of an art based on a misguided student. I am sure if any of the Gracies were on this post, you would get their view, but it would be respectful, and honest, not filled with self ego, or cockyness.

Totally agree, Lou. I've never met any of the Gracies, or their senior students, but everything I have seen/read/heard about them would confirm what you're saying. I think they would be artists rather than fighters, if you see what I'm getting at.

I think Gracie Ju jutsu is an extremely effective martial art, and whilst I don't think it is the most effective fighting style extant, I do believe that it deserves much of the plaudits it gets. Being a pedantic sod, I'm not overly sure they should call it Ju jutsu, but hey - I know I'm in the minority there (probably just me!!). Either way, I would happily train in it.

Budo

Some of my collegues cross train into BJJ (which kinda sounds like an favour you might pay for).

They have nothing but a high regard for the style.

These are guys who have extensive MA knowledge so I trust thier judgement.

Personally what I know about the Gracies and their style, quite frankly is bugger all. Do tell me more.....

Budo.

That's great! The Gracie's are great people indeed, although they are often lambasted and "smack-talked" about all the time...mostly from "traditionalists" and others not into "sportive" training (read, training against non-compliant partners/opponents?

Most "sport" guys have been trashed this way for years, having such things said as, "What you do is real good...for the ring, but in the 'street' I'd win because what I do is not for SPORT". I've seen this so often I could puke.

The irony that is missed is, the "sport" guys are the one's doing all the FIGHTING...yet they're going to lose a fight to someone who rarely does anything more contact oriented than POINT sparring. It's completely ridiculous, yet it persists. You read about that very thing HERE and to be honest, it's a very tired cliche.

Yes, the Gracies are wonderful people and have done great things for the martial arts, I too, agree.

-John

Kogas one final time....if you are tired with our mantra and cliche's leave and don't annoy us anymore. we are obviously not good company so why don't you just leave if your not happy. My wife says company is like fish, they both start to smell bad after 3 days. Your time is up!!!!

You'd love me to wouldn't you? You'd love nothing better.

Your's is the company that NEEDS an antagonistic voice. Otherwise, the place becomes nothing but a circle jerk!

-John

Jeez...an' just when I thought this was going to lead to some kinda group hug....

C'mon Lou, it's good to keep an open mind.

After all you don't have to agree or make a reply to something that annoys you...

Budo.

In all honesty, my earlier post on this thread wasn't an attempt at trolling, only to explain some cold hard facts about the attitudes which tend to prevail among MANY (certainly not all) traditional martial artists.

THEN, I was told that I could leave if I was tired of "their" mantras and cliches. I was speaking of things of which I have direct experience. This wasn't tolerated by a certain someone however.

-John

why can't you guys just keep your anger to yourselves. You woudl think that as people become older they would have better self control than a sixteen year old (that sixteen year old being me)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mikelw:
why can't you guys just keep your anger to yourselves. You woudl think that as people become older they would have better self control than a sixteen year old (that sixteen year old being me)[/QUOTE]Respect Your elders. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif[/IMG]