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#92142 - 03/23/03 07:04 PM Re: Knife Fighting
Scholar Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 472
Loc: Brockton
Special Forces/ Ranger-UDT/Seal
Hand-to Hand Combat ?Special Weapons/Special Tactics Series
"Knife Self-Defense For Combat" by Michael D. Echanis
Ohara Publications 1977
The one I like the best is the redirect into groin defense of overhead type attack. It is Hwrangdo, His Grand Master Joo Bang Lee

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#92143 - 03/28/03 10:29 PM Re: Knife Fighting
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
A knife is a relatively short range weapon. Find a shield or longer weapon. Chairs or barstools serve well. Point the legs at him, lion tamer style. Two by fours are good, or any length of lumber. Thrust with it, to keep him at a distance. Swinging allows him to get inside. If none of these options are available, and you can't run, you could pull your own blade, I suppose...
As far as what to expect, who knows? I practice flicking my knife open and flowing into a series of two horizontal slashes, a check with the live hand, and a low line stab. So if it's me, now you know what to expect! (sometimes... hehehe.) I tend to focus my training on defanging cuts, as I assume the only reason I would be using a knife would be against an armed assailant, but I doubt the average mugger would train that way.

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#92144 - 03/30/03 08:14 AM Re: Knife Fighting
Oldwolf Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/01
Posts: 71
Loc: Scotland
One of the problems with our training is that despite our best intentions we tend to train against knife attacks of two categories;

The 'trained knife fighter' blade held low, cutting edge up held in reverse hand, lead hand out questing, for instance, or blade in lead hand slicing in narrow arcs.

or

The '1940' cowboy and Indian movie attackwhere the assailant attacks from 20 yards away with an over head strike.

I am an advocate of training with jumbo magic marker pens, which give you some idea of how easy it is to get cut.
However the main problem is that in the majority of knife attacks the victim doesn't see the blade until they are bleeding like the proverbial stuck pig, the Americans call it the prison yard rush.
I was doing a door on a notorius night spot when me and my mate stopped some guys who had caused a little bother previous, one at the back lobbed a bottle he was carrying and it kicked of, in the fracas and in full sight of me in slow motion my mate got punched in the chest, dropped his opponent with a shot to the face and moved on to the next, a quarer inch chisel rolled out of the guys hand and my mate had been stabbed in the chest, small almost un-noticible entry wound which quickly saturated his jacket, the ensuing operation had stitches from his sternum under his arm and round his shoulder blade. He still there and still does the door.
I have been in a scirmish or two, and have several silvery threads on my forearms and two between my fingers from blades, couple of short blade stab wounds and some stanley slash marks but nothing serious, but in all those occasions I only saw the blade once before I was bleeding.

Its only my opinion but I think that you must treat every attack as being armed, your defense must be such that damage would be minimal as others have pointed out using front of forearms, back of hands etc, but most importantly finish them off rapidly, don't mess about, finish them and be on your way.

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#92145 - 03/30/03 08:04 PM Re: Knife Fighting
judderman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
Some damn good points.

It is unfortunate, but the majority of the time you see the blade after you see your own blood.

I know there are no hard and fast rules in this one, but does any one know of things to look out for that may hint toward a consealed weapon?

The premise of this is that "a shower rarely stabs, but a stabber rarely shows"

Any ideas?

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#92146 - 03/31/03 07:38 AM Re: Knife Fighting
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Well one can never be sure, but if you are observant enough and lets be honest actualy looking for the threat rather than enjoying a drink and a chat, then look out for unusual hand clenching which may signify an object is being palmed up against the arm or dropped out of a sleave. More obvious examples include an approaching individual reaching into their pocket whilst eyeballing you (hard to guess if they are going to cut and run or are just looking for their keys). IMO you cant defend against the random nutter cutting and running, but if an individual or group is clearly taking an interest in you, with regular eye contact, then you get an approach and pocket reach...well draw your own conclusions. I suppose more blatant examples would include reaching down for the boot whilst maintaining
eye contact, or an obvious brush past between two opponents - possibly a wepaon being passed. To go on a bit further, possible unusal hand movements rather than just to the visible pockets. For example back and round to the small of the back, or down into the front of trousers, could all signify a threat. At the end of the day though, and sorry to state the obvious, but these could all be some bloke in a hurry, straightening his shirt or scratching his nuts. Thats the point of the non shower though, you don't get to see the weapon 99% of the time. These are just some indicators that might move you into the 1% if you see it and it really is a prelude to an attack.

Regds
Mr V

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#92147 - 03/31/03 06:52 PM Re: Knife Fighting
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Brings up an interesting point: method of carry. How do most attackers carry a blade? Any LEO's out there know? On the belt? front or back? in the pocket? Boot? I personally carry my spyderco clipped to my right front pants pocket, or in my wasteband at the pocket of the hip. The possible carry methods are pretty extensive.

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#92148 - 03/31/03 07:47 PM Re: Knife Fighting
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
On the inside of a sleeve if long sleeves. If not on the waist next to my right hand.

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#92149 - 04/05/03 07:48 PM Re: Knife Fighting
Eric Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/04/03
Posts: 6
Loc: Westerville, Ohio USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
On the inside of a sleeve if long sleeves. If not on the waist next to my right hand. [/QUOTE]

Or in an empty front pants pocket, that you have practiced withdrawing from.

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#92150 - 04/05/03 11:53 PM Re: Knife Fighting
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I find that unless it is the little fifth pocket that often the knife gets snagged on the pocket. Or it is hard to find in between keys and change and whatever.

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#92151 - 04/06/03 12:02 PM Re: Knife Fighting
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Chen Zen, get a blade that has a belt clip. Clip it to your pocket, knife inside, clip outside, and discipline yourself to use THAT pocket for nothing but the knife. then practice drawing it about a zillion times. Best done by opening boxes, etc. I'm fast and smooth enough that I can draw, open a box, unlock and fold the blade, and slip it back in it's place before most people notice. Good training.

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