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#90823 - 11/12/00 01:48 AM MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
GEORGE DEMETRIOU Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/11/00
Posts: 2
Loc: ISLIP TERRACE,NY,USA
I JUST WANTED TO GET AN IDEA OF WHAT MARTIAL ARTISTS PRIMARILY INTERESTED IN SELF-DEFENSE THINK ABOUT DEFENDING THEMSELVES AGAINST MORE THAN ONE ATTACKER. DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE? IS YOUR CURRENT TRAINING ADDRESSING THE PROBLEM? ANY REAL LIFE STORIES?

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#90824 - 11/15/00 02:57 PM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
KenpoKev Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 16
Loc: Genoa, Nevada, USA
I think you can use martial arts in a multi-attacker situation, only if you practice for it. We have a tendancy to focus on single attacker techniques with fairly unrealistic attacks. (one-steps come to mind)

I just finished a defensive tactics class for our Sheriff's department. We use simple techniques to position the assailant between us and the other attackers. While it isn't particularly 'artistic', it has a basis of effectiveness.

In any event, you must train in an effective manner. Practice defensive situations, pad-up and thump each other. Connect with some local police to review examples they've seen. (Inquire with the agency about who teaches DT) Fancy stuff doesn't cut it, keep it simple and controlled.

Good luck in your journey!
Regards,
Kevin

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#90825 - 02/26/01 04:12 PM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
Brewer Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/01
Posts: 468
Loc: Arizona,U.S.
Hello,
First of all,I want to say that in this type of situation that you want to avoid grappling at all cost.If you get tangled up with one of them,the other one is going to
take you apart.Secondly,this is where the saying"ichi geki hissatsu"(one strike certain death)comes in.You don't have to kill
the assailant.But you want to make sure that
the technique you choose to use,is delivered with enough power to completely put the first person out of the picture.The second one I would deal with in the same manner.This is just in case your technique didn't put the first one down long enough for you to deal with the second one by himself.If you don't have enough street fighting experience and you haven't trained for full contact.Then you should start doing so if you think that this type of situation may arise.This way I feel that you can develope enough confidence to deal with the situation.
A good way to try out the full contact against two people is to get fully padded .Then have two of your friends or fellow students stand by a door way or even an imaginary door way.One on each side of it and try to fight your way through it.Theres alot of different ways you can do it,but this would be good for starters.And yes,I have taken out two people,exactly like I explained to you above ,when I was telling you about,"ichi geki hissatsu ". It's better to learn in a controlled class room,than finding out on the street,that your technique isn't as good as you thought.
Your Brother in the Arts

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#90826 - 04/30/01 10:18 AM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Id have to strongly agree with a lot of what has been said by the previous respondants. In my experience,the action of getting one of the attackers between you and his fellows as quickly as possible is a must do. I have practiced techniques for imobilising this first attacker and using him as a shield to open up a greater potential for escape, but in all honesty I think most of us would choose to destroy the first attacker and move onto the next. I would strongly advocate the use of short powerful techniques to engage the attackers,very spartan and not at all flowery and at all costs avoid going to ground - often very difficult in practice. As for practice again I must concur, get padded, prepare to accept a bit of pain for a lot of gain and go to it.
Regds

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#90827 - 09/10/01 01:22 AM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
Carrie Hartnett Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 6
Loc: Geelong, Victoria, Australia
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GEORGE DEMETRIOU:
I JUST WANTED TO GET AN IDEA OF WHAT MARTIAL ARTISTS PRIMARILY INTERESTED IN SELF-DEFENSE THINK ABOUT DEFENDING THEMSELVES AGAINST MORE THAN ONE ATTACKER. DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE? IS YOUR CURRENT TRAINING ADDRESSING THE PROBLEM? ANY REAL LIFE STORIES?[/QUOTE]

Ashihara karate is a Martial Art that contends with multiple attackers. I believe this is an important issue, well done on raising this matter.
With a modern day Society, we need to adjust our Martial Arts to address this issue and pratice multiple attack techniques as part of our everyday training. A lot of attacks today are gang related.

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#90828 - 09/10/01 05:12 PM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
Oldwolf Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/01
Posts: 71
Loc: Scotland
Tend to agree with Mr V. on this one, bone on bone, fist elbow etc onto jawline, one strike maybe two max, then onto the next oponent, returning to finish still conscious opponents with flourish and for effect.

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#90829 - 09/10/01 06:38 PM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
MrVigerous Offline
Former Administrator

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 2498
Loc: UK
Flourish and for effect - reminds me of the Geoff Thompson axe kick - hehe. Interesting point though. Should one be in a situation with multiple assailants who (for once) are not all that desperate to go or at least be the first man into the fray, does finishing the first one with a flourish and with due effect pay dividends in terms of the likelihood of continual conflict??? Answers? Opinions?

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#90830 - 12/18/01 07:23 PM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
Jeff Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2
Loc: Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
Hi,

I agree with this with the addition that you only fight one attacker at a time. Use tactics to gain position and try to be as devasting in your first attacks as possible.

Jeff

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KenpoKev:

I just finished a defensive tactics class for our Sheriff's department. We use simple techniques to position the assailant between us and the other attackers. While it isn't particularly 'artistic', it has a basis of effectiveness.

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#90831 - 12/23/02 02:18 PM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
juliusj1n Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 50
Loc: Ontario
I'd say that in a multiple attacker situation it is time to start breaking bones. The goal with more then you can handle is to cut them down to size. Say you have three assailants coming at you from infront of you and five from the back. Well, then the question is, "Which one posses the most danger, the group of three or the group of five?" Obviously your answer will probably the group of three. So you make your way over to them deliver a quick pop jab to the nose of one... he's out of the picture... side kick out a knee... there's another out. And a quick grapple and knee to the third turning them around and putting them betweent he other five... then well, make the rest up... Martial Arts require a lot of spontinuity, so don't be afraid to become more creative then you thought you were.

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#90832 - 12/23/02 02:21 PM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
juliusj1n Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 50
Loc: Ontario
Whoops! Got my thing backwards. Group of five posses most threat, so eliminate the easiest one first. Then it requires more skill.
Sorry about that!
Peace!

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#90833 - 01/14/03 01:58 AM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
roundhouser Offline
Member

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 96
Loc: melbourne
In a multiple assiliant fight you only fight 1 guy at a time just take them as they come and i recomend low fast kicks to the knees and groin that will slow them down and just take it from there. just a thought.

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#90834 - 01/14/03 08:14 AM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
CrimsonTiger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/02
Posts: 346
Ummmm...I'd never suggest flowery and flourish, even for intimidation purposes. If I drop your buddy quickly, then you're likely going to rethink things...regardless of how glossy my finishing technique was.

One thing I've found to be effective in multi-attacker situations is the use of distraction and peripheral vision. I almost never focus on any one attacker. In fact, in a multi-person "sparring" situation (when I was a green belt against a pairing of a blue and a brown), I made a point of intentionally focussing on the bluebelt and throwing my kicks at the brownbelt along my peripheral vision. I almost took the guy out on the first front-kick because he didn't even realize I was paying attention to him. In multiple attackers, I'd use all such distractions to my advantage. Yell, scream, stomp, KEEP MOVING and mix it up (and escape ASAP!)

Now to address the question of who to attack first...*shrug* There are conflicted schools of thought on this, and I think it's really a matter of strategic evaluation. If you're only looking to open an exit and escape, you take out the smallest/weakest link. However, if you think you may have to fight it out a bit, go after the largest threat first. You're fresh, you're focused, you're at your fighting best right at the start...you want to take out their strength while you are strong. That person is also likely the pack-leader (wolfpack mentality in most groups), watching their leader go down is a huge effect on the group morale.

All this being said, not matter how good you are, I wouldn't go trying to handle more than 2 or 3 opponents...none of this "fighting five men" crap. I don't care if you're friggin' Tito Ortiz (or whoever you want to claim is "the best" this week)...5 guys jumping you? You're going down. Run like a scared jackrabbit.

Regards,
CrimsonTiger

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#90835 - 01/15/03 08:33 AM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
kempocos Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 516
Loc: flemington,nj,usa
Fight one at a time, break bones in the legs to keep them from coming. keep moving and look to escape. I feel that they will not wait and fight you one at a time, as menbtioned. I also feel trying to fight more than one at a time is asking for trouble, stamina plus just being overrun is an issue. all you need is one to pick up something and throw it at you and you are down. That is why break the legs and they are not a threat.

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#90836 - 01/19/03 09:46 AM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
gojuwarrior1 Offline
tougher than you

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 1178
Loc: East Coast, USA
my sensei teaches us to keep your attackers in a staight line,keep the weaker guy between u and the others,then as u take the weak guy down move on,use only vital strikes (ears,knees,groin,ex.)because its not gonna be a walk in the park!its a tough job to keep a group of people in a single line,but after years of sparring like that u get the hang of it..

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#90837 - 01/19/03 10:34 AM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
Jamoni Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 1514
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Keep moving, never turn your back on ANY opponents, and NEVER get between two or more opponents. Since multiple attackers definitely constitutes a life or death situation (unless you have an UZI), throat strikes with an open crescent hand are good stoppers. Knee kicks, great.
If one does grab you, he has to go down FAST. eye gouge is good for this.
Most powerful defense? RUN.

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#90838 - 01/20/03 04:45 PM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
theqwertyone Offline
Member

Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 30
http://www.sfdt.com/xiao-xiao/

check out number 3 for defence against multiple attackers. :-)

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#90839 - 03/26/03 02:26 PM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
Tkdstreetfighter88 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 138
Loc: Ocala, Fl, USA
Yea, learning martial arts helped me alot when this group of people all tryed to jump me at once.
The trick is fighting in a circular like pattern, and use shots that will take them down fast so you can move to the next guy.
Beware of your surroundings, what each guy is doing.
Block, parry, move, and always be aggressor when striking.
If theres a rock or stick or anything lying around pick it up and start bashing faces.
If theres nothing around
like i said move to the next guy in a circular motion.
Poke one guy in the throat, break the next guys nose, kick em in the balls. after you get a good hit on one go to the next

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#90840 - 03/26/03 08:19 PM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
Scholar Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 472
Loc: Brockton
Manipulate the multible opponents so they get into each others way ie; sending into another or what I did turning with one guy on my back turning so between us then roundhouse to kidney area after as he went by.
Having your back against the wall so if they miss they break their hands.
Fighting with a comrade back to back against multible opponents.
Multiple opponents can constitue dealy force for that treat level responses by you check local laws.

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#90841 - 03/27/03 01:46 AM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
PsychedelicShogun Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 8
A note on grappling; obviously an attempt at a submission hold or a choke out is not the best strategy because it leaves you vulnerable. However that doesnt mean that grappling is totally without it's place. Quick breaks, projections, and leading techniques can all have tactical applications depending on the specifics of the attack.

I think the most important things have been said, namely to keep moving and do everything possible to prevent an assailant from circling behind you and try to take people out as quickly as possible. Or find a way to escape.

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#90842 - 03/27/03 04:58 AM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
Scholar Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 472
Loc: Brockton
When I've seen Kumite against Multible, The defender was breathing very fast in and out. Is this doing the wrong thing or is it bellows breathing to fan the fire/ rapid breathing to speed up the brain? On the street in that situation, I breathed normally and kept my wits about me.

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#90843 - 03/27/03 05:46 AM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
I have mixed experience with the “take the 1st/biggest out hard and the rest will think twice” theory.

I have used it and seen it. Sometimes it works, but more often it REALLY winds up his mates who then try to commit murder!!
Often in a multiple attacker situation they don’t even notice that one of their group is down!

But as Mr V indicates, if you can “out league them” and shock them into immobility so you can hit them this is great, really only works with muppets!

You just don’t want to be on the deck with the boys playing at a “can can” troop, been there far to often!

In the dojo, we can practice with the luxury of space and awareness, it just isn’t like the really world, try 3 on one with you in a corner or in a small room!

Mark

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#90844 - 03/27/03 06:05 AM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
Scholar Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 472
Loc: Brockton
Bagua/Pakua is the only martial art I've read that is specifically for fighting Multiple Opponents. Interesting read their ancient writings with explanations: Translations of ancient secrets in Baguazhang Emie Baguazhang Theory and Applications By Master Liang, Shou-Yu,Dr. Yang, Jwing Ming,Mr. Wu,Wen-Ching YMAA Publishing Center

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#90845 - 03/27/03 06:15 AM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
Scholar Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 472
Loc: Brockton
(Spelling error) Emei for the Emei Mountains in China where originated.

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#90846 - 03/30/03 12:05 PM Re: MULTIPLE ASSAILANT SELF-DEFENSE
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Ofetn I spar with more than one opponent just to keep it interesting and to learn how to deal with multiple attackers. 3 on 1 is the greatest entertainment ever for me.

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