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#90778 - 04/25/05 03:17 AM Sanchin - Chi - Iron vest

Hello everyone,
I don't regularly post here,but I have some questions I thought you all might be able to help with.
When practicing Sanchin am I developing my chi? Sanchin is a slow powerful kata with dynamic breathing and tension.
Is Iron Vest suggesting that your center is getting stronger somehow?
Your answers and opinions will be greatly appreciated.

#90779 - 04/25/05 06:17 AM Re: Sanchin - Chi - Iron vest
nenipp Offline

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
I'd say just about any ma training should make your center stronger, including iron shirt-type of training, but the specific purpose of different exercises may be different.

#90780 - 04/25/05 07:33 AM Re: Sanchin - Chi - Iron vest
Fisherman Offline

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
I'd agree w/ nenipp that MA training makes your center stronger as well as increases you coordination.
I don't have any experience with Sanchin so it is difficult for me to say if it develops the chi. It may to an extent, but it seems to me that Sanchin is more of a hard style training vs Taiji/Qigong which would be a soft style.
IMO, dynamic tension brings about awareness of a particular area of the body and gradually makes it stronger. Whereas doing the same things with a relaxed integrated body, energy is allowed to flow freely. Tension inhibits the free flow of energy in the body.
Just my $.02...

#90781 - 04/25/05 06:55 PM Re: Sanchin - Chi - Iron vest

Goju has Sanchin kata which is what I described and also Tensho kata which is flowing graceful movements without the tension and dynamic breathing. Go=hard,Ju=soft.

#90782 - 04/26/05 03:18 AM Re: Sanchin - Chi - Iron vest
Bossman Offline

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
Depends how you practice it. If you do the 'soft' version you will access the points in the feet and utilise the breath to draw the chi through the major cycle, if you are putting the tongue to the top palette, 'pulling' the lower abdomen, softening the front midline of the body, softening to hollow the chest and raise the back, loosening the waist to access the thighs etc... then you are practising one of the most powrful chi kung exercises I've ever seen.

In Tensho, if you are utilising the skills of sanchin and floating the waist from the rooted base to use the 5 animal hands, then I'd say you're practising the 2 most powerful core karate kata and whatever 'style' you practice, your techniques will come from a powerful underlying base.

In Goju, it seems that the 'go' tends to overtake the 'ju' and many practitioners tense when they should be softening and then lose all inner sensitivity and connectedness. I find much of it painful to watch.

#90783 - 04/26/05 06:40 AM Re: Sanchin - Chi - Iron vest

Sanchin is base kata in Goju. Any problem you have with kata, solve it with sanchin.
This also relates to chi - fajing.
Any technique executed in Goju is supported with correct breathing and tension, correct posture and correct mindset. These are the 3 conflicts. body - mind - breathing.
Sometimes people get all mysticle about chi. The way I feel it is when properly breathing through abdominen harvesting into hara (ge tanden or tan tien) and releasing through breathing out in coordination with the executed technique in a correct posture without hindering thoughts, your technique will have optimum power release. If you try the same while holding your breath or while breathing in you immediatly feel the difference. This is the immediate/instant effect. Another instant effect is to feel light headed after sanchin training.
On a longer time base, I feel more flexibility in joints through regular sanchin training. For instance, during morning training I do some stretching then after sanchin i do some more stretching and I notice I can go 'deeper'. Regarding iron vest, less bruises, less pain on contact able to deflect blows so they cannot penetrate deep. But I consider it to be a side effect of sanchin and not the goal.
It gives me more awareness in what I do and I can feel wether or not technique is powerfull (this is my pretention anyway).
On the mystical side, I remember Tomahoru Kisaki sensei once explain that while practising sanchin, he had a 360 degree view in his head and could sense his environment, he said that he developped this only recently (he was 73 at that time with more than 50 years of training). I myself had an experience in a fight once where my opponent was projected backward a few meters without me touching him.

There are a few different versions of sanchin in karate. But they all seem to be focused on first locking the lower body into a stance then performing upper body technique. However this is not totaly true.
It seems to me that the hard techniques, coming from the rear hand are done by first locking into the stance (zuki or nukite) and that the softer and front hand techniques are done simultanious with the stepping. These are the 2 principles found in kata, either you are already in a stance and execute a technique or you execute a technique while stepping. The tension build up and release is different in the 2 principles.

Al that build-up of power needs to be released softly at the end of training. This is done through tensho kata. It's the cool down kata and encompasses total softness.

#90784 - 04/26/05 02:24 PM Re: Sanchin - Chi - Iron vest
Alejandro Offline

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 940
Loc: Las Cruces, NM USA
Bossman and CVV:

Do you feel that the strong contraction of the anus that many emphasize is important in the practice of sanchin as a chi kung exercize?


#90785 - 04/26/05 02:28 PM Re: Sanchin - Chi - Iron vest

Did a little research on Anuses, Chi, and Ejuactulation came up.(no pun intended)

Found some people who believe that you loose Chi when you you believe this to be true?

I'll provide the link if you think i'm a troll starting crap.

As to why I did research? Just look at Alejandros post, couldnt help me self. (chuckles)

#90786 - 04/26/05 02:30 PM Re: Sanchin - Chi - Iron vest
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3403
Loc: MiddleEarth
Sanchin and tensho katas are 2 of the most important kata in our system for developing core strength.

I can certainly notice the increase of activity within the healing centres of my hands after practicing both kata. More so with tensho because with the palmheel strikes the ki just comes out in a huge blurp of energy... [IMG][/IMG]

Our founder says that sanchin & tensho, naihanchin, the taiyoku katas and seiunchin develop our power most as martial artists.

#90787 - 04/26/05 04:30 PM Re: Sanchin - Chi - Iron vest
Alejandro Offline

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 940
Loc: Las Cruces, NM USA
Understood Akhilleus. I tried to think of a way to put it lightly, but there isn't one.

Honestly, "anal contraction" is an often emphasized aspect of sanchin training, and I'm curious of opinion; just keeping the thread lively [IMG][/IMG]


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