FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 43 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
BUJU, Pilsungkarate, ALF, old1, Leonar
22928 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 3
Ronin1966 3
ergees 2
Victor Smith 1
GojuRyuboy13 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
Today at 04:53 PM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by Leo_E_49
01/24/12 02:58 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Recent Posts
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
Today at 04:53 PM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
10/22/14 07:20 AM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by swordy
10/11/14 09:21 AM
The Karate punch
by Ronin1966
10/09/14 03:16 PM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ronin1966
10/08/14 09:22 PM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by AndyLA
10/04/14 10:20 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Forum Stats
22928 Members
36 Forums
35583 Topics
432511 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 2 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#90013 - 03/12/05 11:49 AM Re: Zhan Zhaung/Standing the stake
Anonymous
Unregistered


Actually, the method that Sa Bum Nim posted (and here I am speaking of the standing posture, the seated meditation and the time ratio between the two) is what was taught to me as a part of my studies in Lin Kong Jing. The primary difference between Lin Kong Jing and the more traditional Zhan Zhuang training (and my Zhan Zhuang training comes from the Yu Yong Nian lineage) is the seated meditation and the the order in which the postures are taught.

Sa Bum Nim...I am curious to know...who taught you Lin Kong Jing? Was your training self-taught or did you have a shifu teach you? I was a student of Richard Mooney and trained through the 2nd level of his instructor certification. Since there are not too many folks out there that teach the art, I may know your instructor.

As to the other things you mention...well...that is a different topic in and of itself.

Top
#90014 - 03/12/05 05:39 PM Re: Zhan Zhaung/Standing the stake
Anonymous
Unregistered


maybe focusing on your self was the rong word but im sure you know what i mean [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Top
#90015 - 03/12/05 06:17 PM Re: Zhan Zhaung/Standing the stake
Anonymous
Unregistered


I studied shoa-lin, baqua,and xing-i kung fu for years under Bai-xing chuan Grand Master Sifu Phillip "Pete" Star founder of Yi Li Chuan.

I have spoken with Sifu Mooney a couple of times asking him questions and aquired a copy of his program and video.
I agree with most all of his training methods. which are really no different than what my sijo teaches. I study under Sijo Todd Miskimen who teaches by invite only. He is a master of the martial style of Yang Tai-chi as well as has been into lin kong jin for over 20 years. The only way we can figure my strong presence of chi in such a short time of standing is that all my years of training under the guidence of Sifu Star who taught me my basis in the internal arts.

meijin as you know from your studies with sifu Mooney Standing Is actually the primary part of internal chi gung. As for the TKD having been involved in the martial arts for 20 plus years TKD was a piece of cake and since my son wanted to study the arts and since one should not start the standing meditation at my sons age I felt he could learn a common external style. I do however teach him the application of the techniques that other TKD instructors don't even have a clue about. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

As far as bossman's inquiry What is still so perplexing to me is that I am comming to the understanding it is not about charging the battery but more like becoming a lightning rod. Being able to feel more frequencies of the energy like tuning into radio waves and numourous radio stations. I hope you can understand what I am saying. I always stand in the same clothes as your clothes become saturated with chi also and in the same room.
actually about a year ago I started to have outer body experiances while standing when this occurs I never leave the room that I am standing in I just mostly look around and freek on looking at my self from the outside [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]




[This message has been edited by Sa Bum Nim (edited 03-12-2005).]

Top
#90016 - 03/13/05 12:56 AM Re: Zhan Zhaung/Standing the stake
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sa Bum Nim:

By "shoa-lin" I assume you mean Shaolin Quan?

By "xing-i" I assume you mean Xingyiquan?

I have never heard of Bai Xing Chuan (and based on my limited knowledge of Chinese, I think it would be more correct to say Bai Xing Quan) or of Yi Li Chuan (again, more probably correct to say Li Yi Quan). Did "Grandmaster Sifu Pete" invent both of these arts?

As to your instructor...Sijo Todd Miskimen...who was his shifu in Lin Kong Jing? Also curious, you refer to him as Sijo
(Shizu). For the Chinese, that typically indicates the founder of a system. What system did he found?

You said:
"meijin as you know from your studies with sifu Mooney Standing Is actually the primary part of internal chi gung"

Actually, no...I don't know that. While I have found standing stake exercises to be quite effective for me, I would never go so far as to say that it, in and of itself, is "the" primary part of internal qigong. There are numerous valid and effective qigong systems out there and I would never presume to tell them that they have missed the primary part of qigong.

As a student and teacher of various arts, I have personally found that there are alot of variables to take into consideration. What are the principle interests of the student? What is their temperment? What is their prior training? What is their ultimate goal in training? Do they have any health issues? All of this and alot more is going to need to be taken into consideration. I try not to get into a "cookie cutter" approach. But, that is my opinion, based on my experience.

You said:
"As far as bossman's inquiry What is still so perplexing to me is that I am comming to the understanding it is not about charging the battery but more like becoming a lightning rod. Being able to feel more frequencies of the energy like tuning into radio waves and numourous radio stations. I hope you can understand what I am saying."

Ummmm...no....actually I don't understand what you are saying here.

You said:
"I always stand in the same clothes as your clothes become saturated with chi also and in the same room."

Hmmmm...qi saturated clothes? That one is a new one on me. Saturating inanimate objects with qi? Not so sure I would agree with that one.

You said:
"actually about a year ago I started to have outer body experiances while standing when this occurs I never leave the room that I am standing in I just mostly look around and freek on looking at my self from the outside"

I am not even going to go there.

Top
#90017 - 03/13/05 02:26 AM Re: Zhan Zhaung/Standing the stake
Anonymous
Unregistered


I never said you had to agree or believe me. Call Your sifu and ask him. Even his video states that to learn real kung fu the main focus is standing. you may want to review his video. Is it Kung Fu, Gung Fu, Wushu chuan Fa? Ki, chi , qi You are trying to **** me into symantics and i will not ablidge you in that. When one says chi what type of chi are they talking about?

Just because you never heard of a style doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I am not here to fight with you. I have also studied various styles and will continue. You don't have to agree with me. Some say only 60 to 70% of people are effected by chi? I say without chi one would be dead so everyone is effected by it. Could it be that everyone is on a slightly different frequency reguarding internal energy and being able to tune into various fequencies would make it even more effective on everyone. Like I said you don't have to agree with meaybe you just don't want to understand what I am saying. Which is fine. But please do me a favor and Ask Sifu Mooney if the first thing taught to a new student in ancient times was a Technique or Standing meditation. I agree different goals require different paths. But please do me a favor and ask Sifu Mooney if the first step to learning internal arts is to learn to stand to as he calls it build chi as I have come to know it tune into chi and to alearn to allow it to flow through you.

Top
#90018 - 03/13/05 06:38 AM Re: Zhan Zhaung/Standing the stake
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Another question in for those of you that do Zhan Zhuang. Do you do qigong or some other type of 'cool down' exercise when you are done standing?

Bossman,
[QUOTE]First you have to find the direction to face from inside.[/QUOTE]
I'm not so sure that I understand what you are talking about here. Can you please explain in a little more detail?

[QUOTE]The balance is different in that you locate but don't activate the power in the feet.[/QUOTE]
I think I can understand where you are comming from with this; correct me if I'm wrong.
Locating the power in the feet would be to find your ground path for your strcture through them. However, you don't activate the power by sending it some where as if you were doing a roll back or push. The power remains full yet empty at the same time?

What you ststed about connecting the meridians is pretty much what I meant by harmonizing the structure.

meijin,
A couple of questions regarding lin kong jin.
Is this the stuff that George Dillman teaches?
Who is Yu Yong Nian?

Sa Bum Nim,
[QUOTE]When one says chi what type of chi are they talking about?[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about?

[QUOTE]Just because you never heard of a style doesn't mean it doesn't exist.[/QUOTE]
True. However, this is the perfect set up for people to propagate false lineage and bogus claims of extraordinary feats.
If a teacher has extraordinary claims ask him to proove it - and not on one of his students - on you.

[QUOTE]Some say only 60 to 70% of people are effected by chi?[/QUOTE]
Who says that?

Sa Bum Nim - my BIG question to you is; why do YOU think standing is the foundation of IMA's?
and some others...
Do you think that standing is all one needs to be good at IMA's?
Are you talking within the context of martial usage of qi?

Top
#90019 - 03/13/05 10:06 AM Re: Zhan Zhaung/Standing the stake
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sa Bum Nim:

Let's get something straight...I am not trying to imply anything at all in regards to spelling or wording. What I am trying to do is NOT make an assumption as to what you are talking about. If "xing-i" indeed means Xingyiquan, then I can make limited assumptions based one what you should know and what you should have been exposed to. I'll use my friend Fisherman as an example. we have discussed several points concerning Xingyiquan. But, since we are doing it in writing, I have asked him what "flavor" of Xingyiquan it is and I also ask about his instructor. In doing this, I can get an idea about how to word things or the types of things he would be exposed to. And remember...different things can look alike...there is Xingyiquan and Xinyiquan. Looks alike when written, but two different arts. It is important to know what you are talking about. Were I trying to discredit you, I would have been much more specific.

Next, Rich Mooney is no longer my Shifu and has not been. Even if he were, I would not have to run back to him for an answer on every little thing. And it does not mean that I cannot disagree with him.

If zhan zhuang is, as you say, the primary component of internal martial arts (neijia), then step through this logically with me...ok?

#1. Yiquan was developed by Shizu Wang Xiang Zhai.

#2. Yiquan was the first martial art to have zhan zhuang as it's major core component.

#3. Historical documentation shows that Shizu Wang Xiang Zhai did not develop Yiquan until the early 1920's.

#4. If the above is true, are we then saying that the primary part of the internal martial arts (neijia) was missing until the 1920's?

Also...consider the following:

#1. Chen Shi Taijiquan does not do zhan zhuang in any major way...are they missing the primary component of the neijia?

#2. Most versions of Xingyiquan only do Santi as their zhan zhuang. Are they missing the primary component of the neijia?

#3. While not at all an expert of Baguazhang, I do not know of any version that does zhan zhuang in a major way. Are they also missing the primary component of the neijia?

I look forward to your answers.

Top
#90020 - 03/13/05 10:18 AM Re: Zhan Zhaung/Standing the stake
Anonymous
Unregistered


Chris:

You said:
"Another question in for those of you that do Zhan Zhuang. Do you do qigong or some other type of 'cool down' exercise when you are done standing?"

Techincally speaking, zhan zhuang is qigong, so there is no other type of qigong to do. But, there is a series of exercises that are done as a closing or "cool down" as you say. But, it is really more for "sealing" as opposed to "cool down".

You said:
"Is this the stuff that George Dillman teaches?"

No, not at all. To my knowledge, there are no DKI people that are trained in Lin Kong Jing...at least beyond a very rudimentary level. Shifu Rich Mooney (when I last trained with him) only had a handful of instructors at different levels (there are 3 levels) with 3 or 4 being in the US and a couple of others in Europe. His Shifu does not speak English and trained very few Westerners...mostly just Chinese.

You said:
"Who is Yu Yong Nian?"

Dr. Yu Yong Nian is probably the last or one of the last living students of Shizu Wang Xiang Zhai...the founder of Yiquan. His next in line as lineage holder is Shifu Lam Kam Chuen who is now based in the UK. Check Amazon for Lam Kam Chuen's books...I highly recommend them...at least if you have an interest in zhan zhuang and/or Yiquan. And his small circle form is an excellent short form for Taijiquan.

HTH!

Top
#90021 - 03/13/05 12:48 PM Re: Zhan Zhaung/Standing the stake
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
[QUOTE]from Fisherman
I'm not so sure that I understand what you are talking about here. Can you please explain in a little more detail?[/QUOTE]

It's an inner thing - once you quieten down inside, facing in a particular direction will just 'feel right'and it can be different each time you do it. There is complex talk about 'pools' of different types of chi around you and you have to find the one you need to nourish at that time - but I prefer simply face the direction that feels right to you at that time.

[QUOTE]
I think I can understand where you are comming from with this; correct me if I'm wrong.
Locating the power in the feet would be to find your ground path for your strcture through them. However, you don't activate the power by sending it some where as if you were doing a roll back or push. The power remains full yet empty at the same time? [/QUOTE]

Erm.... possibly... in locating the points in the feet, if you stand into them and utilise mental intention they pulse and fill the arches with what feels like cushions of chi. If you locate them but stand on the top of the arch, there's no pulsing.

Hope that helps.. It's like we speak different languages and we have to decipher the meanings!

Top
#90022 - 03/13/05 05:26 PM Re: Zhan Zhaung/Standing the stake
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
meijin and Bossman,

You guys and some others here are the reason I tend to wander back to this forum. I truly enjoy some of the conversations that we get to have.
I also want to thank you for being straight forward when you answer my questions.

meijin,
I guess the reason that I posed the question about standing after a cool down goes back to the cool down thread I started a while back.
The main reason I woud do a cool down after a hardcore standing session is so that I do not walk away from the session with 'head fire'. This is something that my teachers and theirs as weel have put great emphasis on.
My two primary standing practices are santi for Xingyi and the Bagua version of santi where you are basically like in Xingyi with the exception that the upper body is turned towards the inside. In particular with the Bagua santi, I find it necessary to do something afterward that alows me to cool down. My teachers said that it is due to the coiling of the body while standing that causes the heat to build up.
I agree with you that standing is a wonderful training tool, however, it is not a foundational practice to all IMA's.

I had a rather interesting conversation with one of my teachers today about li kong jin.
I feel that it is somehow manipulating force so that the energetic frequency of another human being to cause an effect on that person. Kind of imposing your intent to a point where you alter their vibrational frequency and possibly cause instability?
I have no experience with this type of teaching, so it was just my opinion.
What is your take on it?
Is li kong jin applicable on its own as a 'system' or is it a set of principles to apply to an art that you already know? (ie Xingyi)

Bossman posted:
[QUOTE]Hope that helps.. It's like we speak different languages and we have to decipher the meanings![/QUOTE]
It does help, thank you. I agree that sometimes it's difficult to communicate things here. It makes things a lot easier if you can explain these ideas and whatnot if you can make gestures and physically show someone how it works.
(I guess thats why I have a hard time with the folks that think they can learn exclusively from reading)

Thanks again...
Chris

Top
Page 2 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga