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#89493 - 02/21/05 07:24 PM Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


I know this is a question that is straight out of a cartoon but I am really curios. Itís about a device that would control gravity allowing your body to train under more intense conditions. I have been in basic physics and there are magnetic fields that can do such a thing. I was wondering if those fields would have any harmful repercussions on your body. Also do you think that this would affect the level your chi develops at seeing as your chi is also an electro magnetic field? I did this experiment once when the fair was in town there was a device that would spin you around at a rapid pace pushing you up against the wall. I figured that if it would spin fast enough it would increase gravity on your body. It seemed to work when I did a bunch of sit ups in there but then I got really dizzy and through up. I was just wondering if anyone had ever made an emf capable of increasing or decreasing gravity.

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#89494 - 02/21/05 08:09 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Not to be a jackass, but you should really read up on quantum physics. Stephen Hawking has written several books on QM and the theory of relativity for science beginners (like me).

Surprisingly, many of these concepts are not THAT difficult to understand.

Gravity, mass, acceleration, and electro-magnetism are all inter-related principles.

You seem to be confusing chi with well known principles of science - not that science knows everything, not at all, but the things you are talking about have been researched for some time (Albert Einstein).

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#89495 - 02/21/05 09:00 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


You donít sound like a jackass to me. I have read up on some of that stuff and I donít know what area you are talking about me being confused in. I really was just wondering if an emf that was made to increase gravity around a specific area would affect the emf our body creates. Thatís what chi is. I would really like to know what your opinions are or anyoneís opinion for that mater on the subject of how much increase in gravity could our body take before it stops working and if a baby was born in a more intense gravity situation would it already be acclimated to the change? If so would the bones of this child be stronger then our own, stuff like that. I am really open minded so just give me any ideas or theories I donít care how far fetched they are I am really curious.

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#89496 - 02/22/05 11:01 AM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hmmmm....the "emf" that you refer to, I do not believe that your body emits any significant amount of radiation other than infra-red (heat).

The only way to increase gravity that I know of is to increase the mass of a given object.
Mass can be increased through acceleration.

I do know that many fighter pilots have to withstand a test of how many g's (forces of gravity)they can take before they are allowed to fly. The average person usually passes out between 4-5 g's.

65 g's is the average limit for humans to survive - and that is only for an instant (like in a car crash). If you are refering to a long term enviroment, I do not know.


Gravity is not really a "force" per se, but rather space deforming in the prescence of mass.

Think of two friends holding a table cloth taut above the floor. The table cloth represents space. If you then drop a baseball onto the tablecloth, there will be a depression where the baseball ends up.

If you then drop a golfball onto the cloth, notice how it drops right into the depression where the baseball is. THAT is gravity.


From what I understand, more intense gravity would cause a baby's skeleton to grow thicker and denser. The human body grows it's bones in orientation to gravity.

However, the skeleton of a baby that was born in extreme gravity would probably lose much of it's mass in the prescence of regular earthly gravity after a while.


Apologize for the long, rambling post. Hope some of this made sense.

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#89497 - 02/22/05 11:39 AM Re: Serious training question
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Posted by Saber

[QUOTE]Also do you think that this would affect the level your chi develops at seeing as your chi is also an electro magnetic field?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]I really was just wondering if an emf that was made to increase gravity around a specific area would affect the emf our body creates. Thatís what chi is.[/QUOTE]

Where did you get the idea that chi is an electromagnetic force?
You seem to know exactly what chi is, would you care to enlighten the rest of us that have been training for years and years and still havent figured it out yet?

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#89498 - 02/22/05 01:19 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Putting aside all nonsense, training in heavier gravity is possible and reasonable for a physical conditioning program, (depending on your goals). Here is the realistic way-
http://www.pistacentrifuga.com/eng_new/default_e.html

That one is still quite pricey.

If you still think that you can build some kind of machine, (perhaps with the help of NASA and the U.S. taxpayers), then this is the calculator for determining what can be safely done.
http://www0.arch.cuhk.edu.hk/~hall/ag/sw/SpinCalc/SpinCalc.htm

Sorry, it's a cool idea and I researched it quite some time ago, but you need some real big Bill Gates bucks to do this-
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3u.html

One other thing, how much, and what kind of training have you been doing in normal gravity. You need to start there first. And how do you know 'chi' to be 'EMF'?

If you find a way to make an EMF work, be sure to call NASA and tell them.




[This message has been edited by Lucid Warrior (edited 02-22-2005).]

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#89499 - 02/22/05 01:29 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey Lucid,

that was pretty darn interesting....man i think i would get mighty dizzy though...

the safest cheapest way i could think of was those weighted vest's they sell at sporting goods stores for running. but even those can be dangerous if over used.

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#89500 - 02/22/05 02:44 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saber:
I know this is a question that is straight out of a cartoon but I am really curios. Itís about a device that would control gravity allowing your body to train under more intense conditions. I have been in basic physics and there are magnetic fields that can do such a thing. I was wondering if those fields would have any harmful repercussions on your body. Also do you think that this would affect the level your chi develops at seeing as your chi is also an electro magnetic field? I did this experiment once when the fair was in town there was a device that would spin you around at a rapid pace pushing you up against the wall. I figured that if it would spin fast enough it would increase gravity on your body. It seemed to work when I did a bunch of sit ups in there but then I got really dizzy and through up. I was just wondering if anyone had ever made an emf capable of increasing or decreasing gravity. [/QUOTE]Intersting concept I've thought about that myself, not to go off topic or anything but, what i've learned is that you and you energy/chi field become what you eat as well. If you eat hard nourishing foods your body and it's energy/chi field will be hard/dense, if you eat soft and nourishing foods your your energy/chi field will be soft/gentle. The intensity of hard energy/chi is relative to what you ingest as well When I want to use a tree for a punching bag I chew and ingest hard foods(substances), because if you can break it down on the inside, you can break it down on the outside. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]OH! YEAH!



[This message has been edited by Batgirl (edited 02-22-2005).]

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#89501 - 02/22/05 03:53 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Honestly bat girl where the hell did that come fromÖÖ.. Anyway fisherman I have come to the conclusion of what chi is and how to work it. I canít personally but this is just a theory of mine and some schools that are researching it. Your body emits a low level magnetic field. It is different for every person and seems to be like a supernatural finger print. The source of all this energy is in the center of your body the place right below your belly button. Thatís where the energy starts. People have known about this for thousands of years but never seemed to question it. Until now people havenít been able to monitor it or find out the whys and the hows of it working. From what I have heard you say about chi you believe it is a source of energy as do most of you. If it was just a normal flow of electricity we would short out when we took a shower or anything like that. So it has to be an electro magnetic field. There are devices that will read the strength of your field and so far the man with the highest level of chi is nick named doctor chi and is a tie chi instructor in long beach or something like that. I really donít know. If you are interested I can find out some more about this next Thursday. My friend takes classes with the guy so it wonít be too hard. I really want to know how those emfs work and how to make one I know it would coast an @$$ load of money but think of the profits. We could have ships that donít need fuel to fly because they weigh nothing. And about those weighted vests, dam they **** I was trying to be like goku form dragon ball z and ended up tearing out my shoulder from trying handstand pushups with 55 pounds on my body. I still run and do push ups with them on but nothing that extreme anymore. And just for my defense I didnít start this whole chi talk on purpose I really just wanted to know about emfs and their effect on our bodyís.

[This message has been edited by Saber (edited 02-22-2005).]

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#89502 - 02/22/05 03:59 PM Re: Serious training question
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
[QUOTE]Honestly bat girl where the hell did that come fromÖÖ..[/QUOTE]

Now do you see where i'm coming from saber?

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#89503 - 02/22/05 04:09 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


lol dam man, ok you were right. i just had so much faith. and i was hoping to meet her because i thought she was a cute MA girl in my area but sadly she is crazy and upon meeting her i would probably get killed or eaten or something. Thanks i owe you one.

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#89504 - 02/22/05 05:14 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saber:
Honestly bat girl where the hell did that come fromÖÖ.. Anyway fisherman I have come to the conclusion of what chi is and how to work it. I canít personally but this is just a theory of mine and some schools that are researching it. Your body emits a low level magnetic field. It is different for every person and seems to be like a supernatural finger print. The source of all this energy is in the center of your body the place right below your belly button. Thatís where the energy starts. People have known about this for thousands of years but never seemed to question it. Until now people havenít been able to monitor it or find out the whys and the hows of it working. From what I have heard you say about chi you believe it is a source of energy as do most of you. If it was just a normal flow of electricity we would short out when we took a shower or anything like that. So it has to be an electro magnetic field. There are devices that will read the strength of your field and so far the man with the highest level of chi is nick named doctor chi and is a tie chi instructor in long beach or something like that. I really donít know. If you are interested I can find out some more about this next Thursday. My friend takes classes with the guy so it wonít be too hard. I really want to know how those emfs work and how to make one I know it would coast an @$$ load of money but think of the profits. We could have ships that donít need fuel to fly because they weigh nothing. And about those weighted vests, dam they **** I was trying to be like goku form dragon ball z and ended up tearing out my shoulder from trying handstand pushups with 55 pounds on my body. I still run and do push ups with them on but nothing that extreme anymore. And just for my defense I didnít start this whole chi talk on purpose I really just wanted to know about emfs and their effect on our bodyís.

[This message has been edited by Saber (edited 02-22-2005).]
[/QUOTE]Anyways, sometimes when I practice moving light weight objects without touching them(using martial like ki force) I often tap my center with the same amount of energy/force I want to disperse. Many times it works out quite well. I stand like 5 & 1/2 to 6ft. away maybe more sometimes. Beginners level, but I'm still training. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]Oh yeah, it came from hard work, blood, tears, and lots of training.



[This message has been edited by Batgirl (edited 02-22-2005).]

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#89505 - 02/22/05 07:47 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sorry, Saber.

Please provide evidence of this "magnetic field" emission that you say humans do.

The human body does not issue any significant electrical fields; therefore it cannot issue any significant magnetic field ( as magnetism is simply the effect of oppositely charged electrical fields ).

However, your idea for creating a device for transporting things that way is getting close - there are already "mag-lev" trains in operation in several places around the world.

Sadly, fuel is still required to generate the electricity (that powers the magnets) in the first place. Remember, electricity and magnetism are really two sides of the same thing.

Good luck, though! You are correct about the potential profits!

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#89506 - 02/23/05 06:16 AM Re: Serious training question
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Batgril posted:
[QUOTE]Anyways, sometimes when I practice moving light weight objects without touching them(using martial like ki force) I often tap my center with the same amount of energy/force I want to disperse. Many times it works out quite well. I stand like 5 & 1/2 to 6ft. away maybe more sometimes.[/QUOTE]

You flushed any amount of credibilty you had on this forum down the toilet with that one!

MattJ,
You made a point that I think needs to be put out there.
The point being; people are not machines.

Doesn't mean that the electro magnetic travel ideas aint bad. I heard that the trains that they have used this technology on are super fast and super smooth.

Chris

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#89507 - 02/23/05 07:07 AM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:

Mass can be increased through acceleration...
[/QUOTE]

I know it's nit-picking, but you increase weight with acceleration, not mass.

Also I'm fairly certain gravity is a force (without an active force the masses would not be able to move along the space-time curvature), but my physics is not exactly up to date [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

From what I understand, more intense gravity would cause a baby's skeleton to grow thicker and denser. The human body grows it's bones in orientation to gravity.

However, the skeleton of a baby that was born in extreme gravity would probably lose much of it's mass in the prescence of regular earthly gravity after a while.


Apologize for the long, rambling post. Hope some of this made sense.
[/QUOTE]

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#89508 - 02/23/05 08:40 AM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Shonuff -

I am hardly a science expert, but I can cut and paste like a mofo!

[QUOTE]Stephen Hawking in A Brief History of Time writes "Because of the equivalence of energy and mass, the energy which an object has due to its motion will add to its mass." and Richard Feynman in The Character of Physical Law wrote "The energy associated with motion appears as an extra mass, so things get heavier when they move."[/QUOTE]

I believe weight is just a measure of gravity, where as mass is what causes gravity.

And Gravity is not an independant force, it is the result of a mass distorting the space/time continium.

Hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by MattJ (edited 02-23-2005).]

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#89509 - 02/23/05 02:28 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fisherman:
Batgril posted:
You flushed any amount of credibilty you had on this forum down the toilet with that one!

MattJ,
You made a point that I think needs to be put out there.
The point being; people are not machines.

Doesn't mean that the electro magnetic travel ideas aint bad. I heard that the trains that they have used this technology on are super fast and super smooth.

Chris
[/QUOTE]I was'nt expecting much credibility when I came here I'm not satisfied with my own training yet. I was expecting a good discussion on energy and the use of it. Sheesh, is that to much to ask. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] I'm not the one solely basing my ideas on cartoons. But rather on books, people, and experiences. Books like parapsychology, metaphysics, Qi gong, pranic healing, Chee gong the skill of energy control, the Mystic arts of the Ninja,...etc. And my friends and teachers I have met along the way, Andy my Ninjutsu teacher, Ray, my Shaolin priest teacher, Dennis my shotokan karate teacher(friends with Fumio Demura), and Eric my jujitsu and japanese street fighting teacher. And also my experiences with supernaturalism and the martial arts, I had questions, concerns, and insight about them. But you probably don't care. I was just looking for people like me. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#89510 - 02/23/05 03:01 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


hey thanks for all the feedback donít let this topic disappear all i need is a couple of days to get in contact with these people. if you donít hear anything by next Thursday delete this topic and lets never speak of it again

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#89511 - 02/24/05 08:00 AM Re: Serious training question
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
As far as gravity-research unified string theory(fascinating stuff).
It puts forward the theory that gravity is in fact a seperate energy.

The simple fact is noone really understands exactly what gravity actualy is.

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#89512 - 02/24/05 10:26 AM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


If you have not read Elegant Universe by Brian Greene, I suggest you do. It is quite interesting.

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#89513 - 02/24/05 11:45 AM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Neko -

I was under the impression that the "unified" in the name of that theory was saying that the fundamental forces (strong, weak, electro/magnetism and gravity) were NOT seperate things, but rather manifestations of or reactions to the others.

Of course, I have little knowledge of string theory, or quantum mechanics in general.

Do you have any good links for your info?

I can't believe that we are discussing QM on an internal arts MA forum! Can't we be shot for this?!

Apologize for totally derailing this thread!

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#89514 - 02/24/05 04:02 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


(I'm going to name the baby born in high grav. Billy)
The Billy's heart would overwork its self, resulting in a heart failure or heart attack. If he somehow survivide that, then he would age at an abnormaly high rate due to the constant wear on the body. Also, Billy's young bones would be imbued with a permanent curvature(bent leg bones, hunch back, arthritis in the hips and knees, etc.) . A very sad life >:[

Moving on...
I think that if an object's gravitational pull was somehow irregular; then, it could not intertwine with the surrounding universe. Like oil in water. It could travel at limitless speeds with little or no propulsion. Also, I believe that gravity is the source of all the other forces, especialy electromagnetism; because, it is the only force that could possibly be present in the sub-stringular level(I made the strigular word up to help explain what I am trying to say), as it works wherever there is mass, while the others only work at a much larger level. Gravity causes the other forces when the particles composing strings(sub-stringular) collide with each other because of the gravitaional pull, then quickly disengage, because even gravity is very weak at that level, then collide again. The energy created by these collisions is what makes everything and everyone unique. Don't ask me for sources, because I don't have any, lol. I came up with this when I finished my science assessment two-hours early, leaving me with alot of time to think.

note: There is no light on this level because photons are too big <:O

Question: If gravity is the weakest force, then why is it the only one that is able to puncuture the phyiscal plane(ex: Black Holes)?

[This message has been edited by RockHard Huy (edited 02-24-2005).]

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#89515 - 02/24/05 05:35 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Err....RockHard? Not trying to be rude, but...

[QUOTE]Don't ask me for sources, because I don't have any[/QUOTE]

You certainly make some interesting conjecture, but I disagree with some of your points.

[QUOTE](I'm going to name the baby born in high grav. Billy)
The Billy's heart would overwork its self, resulting in a heart failure or heart attack. If he somehow survivide that, then he would age at an abnormaly high rate due to the constant wear on the body. Also, Billy's young bones would be imbued with a permanent curvature(bent leg bones, hunch back, arthritis in the hips and knees, etc.) . A very sad life >:[[/QUOTE]

Is there a doctor in the house?! I do not know much about physiology (earth-bound or otherwise), but would like to know if that is true!

[QUOTE]Also, I believe that gravity is the source of all the other forces, especialy electromagnetism; because, it is the only force that could possibly be present in the sub-stringular level(I made the strigular word up to help explain what I am trying to say), as it works wherever there is mass[/QUOTE]


That is certainly debatable since gravity can not exist without mass. Perhaps mass (and the other forces) is the source of gravity! (my understanding)

Sub-stringular! Good grief!!! Strings were supposed to be THE SMALLEST!! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Gravity wave theory, eh? I am unclear on what causes the waves to begin with. Disturbance by mass? Quantum fluctuation? I know very little about string theory.

[QUOTE]note: There is no light on this level because photons are too big <:O[/QUOTE]

Photons can act like waves as well as particles, as far as I know....so there could be light. But I guess we'll never know.

[QUOTE]Question: If gravity is the weakest force, then why is it the only one that is able to puncuture the phyiscal plane(ex: Black Holes[/QUOTE]

Where are you getting your info that gravity is the weakest force? Wouldn't the weak (atomic) force be the weakest? (I am assuming from the name given to it)

Interesting discussion, though.

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#89516 - 02/25/05 01:01 AM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


First I would just like to apologize for the late post I just got back from class it was a 10 hour day in the dojo, very long. I am most impressed in the intelligence of this forum. Its quite amazing to be able to discus physics on a marital arts site. I donít know if I am right but from what I heard no one has even come close to finding out exactly how black holes are created some think it is the last stage of life for a dying star and others say that light can puncture the space time continuum making a black hole. But I really donít know a lot about that stuff, so let me tell you what I do know. The college is uci (University of California Irvine) they are measuring chi with devices used to measure emfs so I could be wrong about chi being an electro magnetic field but thatís what they are using to measure them. The college is trying to keep this really hush hush for unknown reasons. The friend I talked to about this thinks its because they are bringing people to the states illegally to test them. Some of the masters of ussd(united studios of self defense, an American school) have been tested as well. I will try to find out more if I can but itís really hard to get those people to talk. If anyone can give me some more 411 on this pls helpÖÖÖÖÖÖÖ.

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#89517 - 02/25/05 06:50 AM Re: Serious training question
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
I can't believe that we are discussing QM on an internal arts MA forum! Can't we be shot for this?!

Nope, we've done it before and we're more than likely to do it again (of course you could argue that the fact that we haven't been shot before isn't a guarantee that we wont in the future, but we're all gonna die some day anyhow, so what the heck )

I had some thoughts about the discussion above, but it's friday afternoon and english is just a bit of a struggle for me, so I'll let it be (at least for now)

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#89518 - 02/25/05 08:45 AM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


from my last encounter with the string theory my understanding has been that all of the four major forces were at one time the same fource and have since the very moment the universe was created have split into the other four.

the thought that the four forces that govern everything in the universe were once one is no longer that contriversial in part because we have already succeded in combining two or three of the forces, i believe it is two.

someone mentioned the weakness of gravity, the thing about that is that if we take that our universe is made up of only the four dimensions that we know up/down, left/right, forward/backwards, and an extra dimension of time than gravity should be able to be expressed as "Let T be the theoretical magnitude of dark energy.
Let E be the experimental value of dark energy.
If the theorists were right, then T should = E.
Yet T Āā E.
T = E x 10 to the 120.* " this qoute comes from an issue of popular science and if you ould like to read this excellent article you can find it at
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,20967,832497-1,00.html

well i was going to post how big a number that is but it is ten with a hundred and twenty zeros after it anways what this means is that the gravity difference in force has to be explained by other dimensions and that the gravity is spred out through all of the other dimensions and is the only thing that can travle between dimensions.

as for black holes all of the evidence that i have seen points to dieing stars because as they collapse the force that pushes them apart at the atomic level gets over wehlmed and they completely collapse and the gravity goes up as the object gets denser. the density is what makes it heavy. and the material of the star gets so compressed that it puches a hole through and warps the fabric of space time.

hope everyone was able to keep up with that if you have any questions i suggest reading that popsci article first and if that doesnt help i can try to explain whatever i can.

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#89519 - 02/25/05 09:25 AM Re: Serious training question
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/everything.html

Someone else mentioned Brian Greene and "Elegant Universe".

PBS' Nova did a really good show on it-hosted by Brian Greene. Highly recommended watching.

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#89520 - 02/25/05 11:10 AM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]
And Gravity is not an independant force, it is the result of a mass distorting the space/time continium.

Hope this helps.
[/QUOTE]

Otherway around I think... Gravity distorts space-time, hence all the the theorys of warping space with artificial gravity sources. Space being curved wont make an object change its location on that curve, a force is needed to act on the object.

Well pasted about the mass though, my copy of a brief history of time is burried somewhere in my room.

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#89521 - 02/25/05 12:24 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


All this big talk and no one is even answering his question. I'm not exactly sure if it is the same as Goku's 100x earth gravity training, but simply applying weights(ankle weights, wrist weights) to your body is almost the same. The additional weight makes it harder to move, most are at 5kg per weight, so that's two wrist bands(10kg) two ankle weights (10kg) and a weighted shirt(15kg), the pants are 10kg but they'll probably fall off when you get sweaty so forget it. That's 35 kg, and you walk around with that all day, and train with it when you have the time, Once you remove the weights you will feel lighter(Hell I jumped to the roof literally.)My brother who is the real work out man of the house, says that all though it will not cause any health problems, it may stunt your growth and if you have un-even weights there are back pains. The choice is yours, if you want to punch like a motor engine(constant and rapid) and run like a bolt of lighting, apply weights.

As for this gravity thing, I think it's a bit extreme and further more it sounds like it will cost you a million.

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#89522 - 02/25/05 12:56 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote by Shonuff -

[QUOTE]Gravity distorts space-time[/QUOTE]

Full agreement there.

[QUOTE]Space being curved wont make an object change its location on that curve, a force is needed to act on the object.[/QUOTE]

Again, agreed. I assume there must be some kind of inertia or momentum in the first place to set things in motion (big bang?).

Unclear about the properties of gravity in a mass-less enviroment - my understanding is that gravity can not exist without mass, ie; gravity must have something to act ON.

Two objects going away from each other in space will probably never act gravitationally on each other - but as they pass by other objects, the resulting distortion of space/time will cause other objects to be drawn into the depressions(?) or warpages(?). Even light is not immune to that effect, as astronomers are well aware of the effect of backround star's apparent 'movement' relative to high-mass foreground objects.

Ummm...not sure if anyone really knows, though. Sort of a "chicken or egg" thing for now.

Hopefully this post is coherent, as I am currently on enough allergy medecine to drop a rhino.


[This message has been edited by MattJ (edited 02-25-2005).]

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#89523 - 02/25/05 04:19 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]
The problem that had been confounding all of these smart people for so long (and continues to confound them; did I mention that none of what Iím describing has yet been supported by a shred of experimental evidence?) was this: Gravity is weak.
Objection #1: Thatís silly. Gravity is the strongest thing aroundóitís what moves planets and clusters of thousands of galaxies, not to mention that itís what keeps us pinned to the ground.
Rebuttal #1: When you compare it to the other forcesósay, the electromagnetic forceógravity is incommensurably less powerful. Take for example a simple refrigerator magnet. Think about the forces acting on it as it pins a photo to the fridge. Thereís the combined gravitational force of the entire Earth pulling the magnet down to the ground, and the magnetic attraction of a little strip of iron anchoring it to the fridge. Those few grams of magnetic material win; not even a planet-size
[/QUOTE]

However, like you said, other forces could be weaker. This quote is from the link that Trek left.

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#89524 - 02/25/05 05:07 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:
Quote by Shonuff -

Again, agreed. I assume there must be some kind of inertia or momentum in the first place to set things in motion (big bang?).

Unclear about the properties of gravity in a mass-less enviroment - my understanding is that gravity can not exist without mass, ie; gravity must have something to act ON.

Two objects going away from each other in space will probably never act gravitationally on each other - but as they pass by other objects, the resulting distortion of space/time will cause other objects to be drawn into the depressions(?) or warpages(?). Even light is not immune to that effect, as astronomers are well aware of the effect of backround star's apparent 'movement' relative to high-mass foreground objects.

Ummm...not sure if anyone really knows, though. Sort of a "chicken or egg" thing for now.

Hopefully this post is coherent, as I am currently on enough allergy medecine to drop a rhino.


[This message has been edited by MattJ (edited 02-25-2005).]
[/QUOTE]

Forces act through fields. All fields are infinite. To use the quantum model the forces are transmitted by way of carrier particles (in this case Gravitons). Two masses moving in opposite directions no matter how far appart will attract each other but with an attraction weakening as the distance inreases, whether they slow and come back depends on how much velocity they are have initially i.e. if its too great gravities effects will be negligable.

A mass is the source of the gravitational field, just as an electric charge is the source of an electrical field, but the attractive or repulsive effect is precisely whats known as a force. Space-time is only curved because of the force of gravity acting on it. You're right though, it is hard to seperate, but Im quite certain Gravity is classified as a force.

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#89525 - 02/25/05 06:16 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


RockHard -

While that almost makes sense, is Trek really trying to compare a refrigerator magnet's attraction to that of the sun ( which is holding several planets and other debris large and small )?!

Taking away the heat factor, if you were to put that same magnet on the surface of the sun, solar gravity would probably flatten it.

Perhaps not a fair comparison (magnet to sun), but the sun does produce a hefty magnetic field of it's own. But it would be fair to say that the sun's magnetism is NOT what is holding all the planets in orbit...


Shonuff -

I am in agreement with you as far as gravity's classification as a force. I think we might be arguing two different perspectives - the 3D human POV, where gravity acts as and appears as a seperate, independant force, and the unified theory defintion which sees all the fundamental forces as inter-related.

You have certainly made a good case for your POV. If your martial arts skills are as sharp as your debating skills, you must be tough indeed. Fascinating discussion!

*bows respectfully*

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#89526 - 02/25/05 09:19 PM Re: Serious training question
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:
[B
You have certainly made a good case for your POV. If your martial arts skills are as sharp as your debating skills, you must be tough indeed. Fascinating discussion!

*bows respectfully* [/QUOTE]

LOL, thank you for the complement, but I only wish I could walk it as good as I talk it. Maybe when I get back into training properly.

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