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#89523 - 02/25/05 04:19 PM Re: Serious training question

The problem that had been confounding all of these smart people for so long (and continues to confound them; did I mention that none of what Iím describing has yet been supported by a shred of experimental evidence?) was this: Gravity is weak.
Objection #1: Thatís silly. Gravity is the strongest thing aroundóitís what moves planets and clusters of thousands of galaxies, not to mention that itís what keeps us pinned to the ground.
Rebuttal #1: When you compare it to the other forcesósay, the electromagnetic forceógravity is incommensurably less powerful. Take for example a simple refrigerator magnet. Think about the forces acting on it as it pins a photo to the fridge. Thereís the combined gravitational force of the entire Earth pulling the magnet down to the ground, and the magnetic attraction of a little strip of iron anchoring it to the fridge. Those few grams of magnetic material win; not even a planet-size

However, like you said, other forces could be weaker. This quote is from the link that Trek left.

#89524 - 02/25/05 05:07 PM Re: Serious training question

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:
Quote by Shonuff -

Again, agreed. I assume there must be some kind of inertia or momentum in the first place to set things in motion (big bang?).

Unclear about the properties of gravity in a mass-less enviroment - my understanding is that gravity can not exist without mass, ie; gravity must have something to act ON.

Two objects going away from each other in space will probably never act gravitationally on each other - but as they pass by other objects, the resulting distortion of space/time will cause other objects to be drawn into the depressions(?) or warpages(?). Even light is not immune to that effect, as astronomers are well aware of the effect of backround star's apparent 'movement' relative to high-mass foreground objects.

Ummm...not sure if anyone really knows, though. Sort of a "chicken or egg" thing for now.

Hopefully this post is coherent, as I am currently on enough allergy medecine to drop a rhino.

[This message has been edited by MattJ (edited 02-25-2005).]

Forces act through fields. All fields are infinite. To use the quantum model the forces are transmitted by way of carrier particles (in this case Gravitons). Two masses moving in opposite directions no matter how far appart will attract each other but with an attraction weakening as the distance inreases, whether they slow and come back depends on how much velocity they are have initially i.e. if its too great gravities effects will be negligable.

A mass is the source of the gravitational field, just as an electric charge is the source of an electrical field, but the attractive or repulsive effect is precisely whats known as a force. Space-time is only curved because of the force of gravity acting on it. You're right though, it is hard to seperate, but Im quite certain Gravity is classified as a force.

#89525 - 02/25/05 06:16 PM Re: Serious training question

RockHard -

While that almost makes sense, is Trek really trying to compare a refrigerator magnet's attraction to that of the sun ( which is holding several planets and other debris large and small )?!

Taking away the heat factor, if you were to put that same magnet on the surface of the sun, solar gravity would probably flatten it.

Perhaps not a fair comparison (magnet to sun), but the sun does produce a hefty magnetic field of it's own. But it would be fair to say that the sun's magnetism is NOT what is holding all the planets in orbit...

Shonuff -

I am in agreement with you as far as gravity's classification as a force. I think we might be arguing two different perspectives - the 3D human POV, where gravity acts as and appears as a seperate, independant force, and the unified theory defintion which sees all the fundamental forces as inter-related.

You have certainly made a good case for your POV. If your martial arts skills are as sharp as your debating skills, you must be tough indeed. Fascinating discussion!

*bows respectfully*

#89526 - 02/25/05 09:19 PM Re: Serious training question

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:
You have certainly made a good case for your POV. If your martial arts skills are as sharp as your debating skills, you must be tough indeed. Fascinating discussion!

*bows respectfully* [/QUOTE]

LOL, thank you for the complement, but I only wish I could walk it as good as I talk it. Maybe when I get back into training properly.

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