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#89347 - 02/15/05 01:17 AM What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


now one day when it was really cold outside I for some reason started to chanel my energy and I started becoming really warm in my chest area. What the hell is that because now I can do it whenever I want. Do you have any idea to what it is?

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#89348 - 02/15/05 02:18 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
It's the flow of chi through the conception vessel meridian, put your tongue to the top palette, hollow (by softening) your chest and pull in your lower abdomen and you will increase the flow.

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#89349 - 02/15/05 02:20 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[This message has been edited by SANCHIN31 (edited 02-15-2005).]

[This message has been edited by SANCHIN31 (edited 02-15-2005).]

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#89350 - 02/15/05 10:49 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks, another question is there a way to channel this energy into my arms or what not. I mean I can controll it in my chest but how about controlling it somewhere else in my body. Is that possible?

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#89351 - 02/15/05 05:14 PM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by zzzcvbn2000:
Thanks, another question is there a way to channel this energy into my arms or what not. I mean I can controll it in my chest but how about controlling it somewhere else in my body. Is that possible?[/QUOTE]
yes slap your hands together really hard with might. Do this as long as needed. This is true jing that you feel warming your arms and hands. Not to mention sound energy.

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#89352 - 03/03/05 11:09 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bossman:
It's the flow of chi through the conception vessel meridian, put your tongue to the top palette, hollow (by softening) your chest and pull in your lower abdomen and you will increase the flow. [/QUOTE]

Isn't this the complete oposite of how to build chi?

What you describe sounds like just normal breathing from your chest. Your abdomen needs to be relaxed loose. If you pull it into your body you aren't going to be able to breathe properly.

At least thats how i see it. I don't know very much though.

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#89353 - 03/03/05 11:17 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Search for the thread on taoist vs. buddhist breathing methods...this might help clarify, but in my experience what bossman has told you will work

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#89354 - 03/03/05 01:58 PM Re: What is this that I feel?
nenipp Offline
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Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Not sure, but I think "pull in your lower abdomen" in this case might mean straighten your lower back, not the kind of "suction"like movement as in taoist-breathing?

I could be wrong, of course... Bossman?

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#89355 - 03/03/05 03:03 PM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


nenipp:

Well...from a qigong point of view you never want to "straighten the lower back". It has a slight curvature (as does the neck) for a reason...two main ones actually.

First, "normal" qi flow would be down the front and up the back. Straightening out the lower spine makes it more difficult to get the energy up the back and this is one of the primary "sticking" points in qigong exercises such as Xiao Zhou Tian (Small Heavenly Circulation or microcosmic orbit) and Da Zhou Tian (Great/Large Heavenly Circulation or macrocosmic orbit). The point here being able to establish a flow from CV-4 (2" below the navel) to CV-1 (middle of the perineum) to GV-4 (between the kidneys or at the L-2 point on the spine).

Second, straightening the back is going to cause issues with the kua (pelvic crease or more technically the inguinal crease). Within the internal martial arts, there are times to want the kua open and other times closed. If you straighten the lower spine and keep it that way it makes the pelvic tuck and pelvic tilt (movements to close and open the kua) very difficult to do.

This is what I was taught, but your mileage may vary.

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#89356 - 03/03/05 08:48 PM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by meijin:
nenipp:

Well...from a qigong point of view you never want to "straighten the lower back". It has a slight curvature (as does the neck) for a reason...two main ones actually.

First, "normal" qi flow would be down the front and up the back. Straightening out the lower spine makes it more difficult to get the energy up the back and this is one of the primary "sticking" points in qigong exercises such as Xiao Zhou Tian (Small Heavenly Circulation or microcosmic orbit) and Da Zhou Tian (Great/Large Heavenly Circulation or macrocosmic orbit). The point here being able to establish a flow from CV-4 (2" below the navel) to CV-1 (middle of the perineum) to GV-4 (between the kidneys or at the L-2 point on the spine).

Second, straightening the back is going to cause issues with the kua (pelvic crease or more technically the inguinal crease). Within the internal martial arts, there are times to want the kua open and other times closed. If you straighten the lower spine and keep it that way it makes the pelvic tuck and pelvic tilt (movements to close and open the kua) very difficult to do.

This is what I was taught, but your mileage may vary.

[/QUOTE]

Any tips for someone who has all of that perfect and natural on one side of the body, but the other side moves backwards?
Heh Heh, at least my upper kwa is getting more opened on both sides now...... Imagine my supprise when I realized I have been breathing with only one lung for most of my life! ...

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#89357 - 03/04/05 12:19 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Meijin,

I can only comment about the functional anatomy and qigong points of view, as the are very much "my cups of tea" (one my primary form of exercise and the other my occupation) and I have no argument with you on either one.

What I mean by straighten your lower back isnt't that the spine should be straight when scanned by x-ray or something like that, but that one should allow it to take neutral position ("straight"), which includes it's natural curvatures (lumbar and cervical lordoses and thoracal kyphosis) and is necessary for relaxation of dynamic musculature (in standing or sitting).
Without this, I for one sure cannot connect the points along the microcosmic orbit in the area you described.

About the IMA material, I disqualify myself from commenting, due to the fact that my MA is of the external kind, although I for myself am trying to use relaxed and aligned whole body movements, I have no formal instruction in IMA.

BTW, it's very obvious to me that you know what you're talking about, so any comments you contribute with are taken seriously at this end!

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#89358 - 03/04/05 07:10 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey Lucid,

How's everything going....

You have me curious, how did you discover you were only breathing with one lung, and how did you correct that problem?

Regards,
Ed

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#89359 - 03/04/05 08:52 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


nenipp:

Thanks for the correction...without knowing you, as soon as I saw "straighten your back" I assumed the worst. Sorry for that...I see exactly what you mean and won't automatically go the wrong direction next time.

Thanks again!

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#89360 - 03/04/05 10:10 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
pull in your lower stomach closes the hui yin and moves the tailbone by the correct amount naturally. Pulling the perinium muscle can cause long term damage and 'tipping' the base of the spine will knock everything else out of line. Notice it's the LOWER stomach not stomach. It's a subtle thing...

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#89361 - 03/04/05 10:18 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey Bossman,

the long term damage, does that feel like a vertical stitch in the center of your abdomen, if you use the perinium too much? I'm wondering if it pulls on the connected tissue, or if you meant long term damage to the perinium?

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#89362 - 03/04/05 12:28 PM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrEd:
Hey Lucid,

How's everything going....

You have me curious, how did you discover you were only breathing with one lung, and how did you correct that problem?

Regards,
Ed
[/QUOTE]

It's really difficult for me to explain, but on the 'good' side of my body, I have a natural tendency to connect my whole body from the core on outward. This does not mean that I don't source from the ground, it's more like each articulation from the body is dependent on the previous articulation starting from the core as I sink into my structure, (am I making sense)?
The (bad) side of my body is weak in the core because I tend to source strength from the external musculature in my hands and feet moving in towards the core. Very tense. I guess I find it difficult to put into words.
Regardless of how to explain it, that side of my body was so out of alignment that my diaphragm had no strength and had restricted movement; so much that it just stopped pulling the lung down on that side. Don't get me wrong, some air entered this lung, but it is just air that 'leaks' in while the other lung is breathing. I discovered while laying flat down on my bed, focusing on my weak side when breathing.

As far as correcting it, I'm not quite done but, practice practice practice.....
Ya know ... relax this, align that, strengthen here, open that...... Sigh [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] I haven't figured the whole thing out yet.

I don't know if that is a common roadblock in martial arts, but I don't want to highjack this thread any further. I am planning on making a thread for this later on
to follow up on some other threads I started somewhere on this forum, I will provide links.


By the way MrEd, Laf bumped some of your threads, I'd be interested any updates to this one especially. http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000240.html

[This message has been edited by Lucid Warrior (edited 03-04-2005).]

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#89363 - 03/04/05 08:42 PM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I should mention that my inability to explain the above is mostly due to the fact that I do not fully understand it.
----------------------------------

Bossman! I've noticed before that on the 'messed up side of my body' that the perineum seems to be in constant tension throughout the day, (relaxed on the other side of course). Any thoughts on how to relax it?
Also, when you say the "LOWER stomach not stomach," just how low do you mean? It usually seems natural to pull in the area just below the naval and let the diaphragm contact the top of the 'pulled in' part. In the back of my mind, I have always wondered if it should be lower.

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#89364 - 03/05/05 06:13 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
I wont answer in Bossman's place, but I'll take the liberty of giving my two cents:

I like to begin the "pulling" from the bottom and go up to at least not higher than naval. As a matter of fact I stop even lower, because if I go up to the naval my superficial (dynamic) abs engage, and that disallows full freedom of movement. This however seems to vary a bit from individual to individual.

What I'm trying to achieve is the isolated (with totally relaxed rectus and obliquus abdominii) tensing of the transverus abdominis muscle, it's very easy to overdo it! Like Bossman said "it's a subtle thing..." of course I'm assuming we're talking about the same thing, if I'm wrong it won't be the first time )

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#89365 - 03/05/05 06:23 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Reading my own previous post a quote by Louis Pasteur came to mind:

"One must not assume that an understanding of science is present
in those who borrow its language."

;o)

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#89366 - 03/05/05 07:16 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
I'm sat thinking, how the hell do I describe this? I've been taught by 'chap sau' (physical manipulation) and question and answer. I was told to not 'pull the perenium because of long term damage to the prostate. I think of the dantien as the 'controller' and visualise the whole area as a ball covered in multi dimensioned muscles or like holding the reins to many horses.

The lower abdomen 'parks' the spine spiralling the kua then through the quads and 'screwing' the foot into the floor. The 'parking' spine spirals and releases the stretches in the obliques, intercostals and arms sending the energy out directionally through the hands.

So the lower abdomen closes the hui yin pulling the pubicoxygeus muscle to 'park' the spine. It's pulled only according to what you are doing and 'controls' all movement.

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#89367 - 03/06/05 11:38 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Just curious Bossman, have you been "thaught" to think/visualize/feel in those terms, or have you developed an own "language" in the process integrating the given teachings?

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#89368 - 03/06/05 11:56 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
Some of the terms are classical terms and others my own visualisation. It seems to take a mixture of the two to try and explain it.

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#89369 - 03/06/05 12:06 PM Re: What is this that I feel?
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Thank's for the reply, some of your explanations are quite easy for me to relate to, whereas others are more or less impossible!

ps: please note that I don't complain on the quality of you'r explanations, I only "blame" my own lack of IMA training/instruction

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#89370 - 03/06/05 01:07 PM Re: What is this that I feel?
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
I understand, the classics need translating from english into understandable training english and never mean what they 'apparently' mean. The Yang 'family' terms are only relevant if you train directly with a family member. The techniques that don't have names are the most important ones and you have to know the stories and legends that go with the name of each technique to understand what the term means....

Terms and names would be a good thread....

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#89371 - 04/09/05 10:43 PM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Both types of breathing increase Chi. One is reverse and one is normal. The emphasis is on the Tan Tien, the area about 2 inches below your navel and 2-3 inches below the skin. It's like a bio battery that stores the body's energy.

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#89372 - 04/09/05 11:01 PM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


that same thing happend to me exept to my fists but once i started it wouldint stop until i found out how to controll it.

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#89373 - 04/12/05 10:40 AM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Batgirl:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by zzzcvbn2000:
Thanks, another question is there a way to channel this energy into my arms or what not. I mean I can controll it in my chest but how about controlling it somewhere else in my body. Is that possible?[/QUOTE]
yes slap your hands together really hard with might. Do this as long as needed. This is true jing that you feel warming your arms and hands. Not to mention sound energy.
[/QUOTE]


With enough practice you can channel it anywhere you want to. I know you can because i have worn shorts when it was nine degrees out just because i have control. meditating will help if you try to push your energy to specific parts of the body while meditating.

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#89374 - 04/12/05 02:25 PM Re: What is this that I feel?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Daoist, or reverse breathing, is excellent for channeling chi to certain parts of the body. But beware, it is an advandced form of doing so, and could result in negative results if your posture, or practice is not up to snuff. Inhale bring stomach inwards, exhale bring stomach outwards, as if you were pushing the energy out. Buddhist breathing is the best way to attain and circulate energy consistently in practice.

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