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#89226 - 02/28/05 03:55 PM Re: Tao Te Ching
Bossman Offline

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
Just got back from tai chi in the Czech Republic.. good to see the topic still going...

Butterfly Palms the link for your poem is:

Thank you.

I was given the translation by Jane English and Guang Feng and love the poetic way it's written along with the photographs and original text..

The genius of the book is that it can be read in so many ways and apply to almost everything in life.

Ma Lee Yeung (Yang Sau Chung's daughter) teaches a set of 'family' exercises that change with each 'layer' of the form and contain the internal skills within the techniques - these exercises helped me to understand the form immesuarably.

I'll try to write more tomorrow.

#89227 - 02/28/05 06:22 PM Re: Tao Te Ching


Hope people will enjoy the poem and 'see' something in it to enhance their practice; especially beginners.

Waiting to hear more from you.

#89228 - 02/28/05 06:34 PM Re: Tao Te Ching

Hi butterfly palm,

I took your suggestion and tried it....focusing on the ming men, or other acupoints on the back produce different sensations when leading energy to the dan tien then i expereienced previously. I used it as a "gate". Previously i focused on the shen center and dan tien simultaneously and lead the chi from top to bottom. With the ming men, i led all the energy to the ming men first, felt the tingling, and then led it down to the dan tien. I tried a few other points, there is a subtle difference depending on where you concentrate, but the overall affect is the same. Amazing!


#89229 - 03/01/05 07:02 AM Re: Tao Te Ching
Bossman Offline

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
As I leaf through the yellowing pages of my 1972 TTC each verse can be read as a MA strategy and a strategy for life on so many levels. Each of the Yeung family exercises can be practised differently according to what is in your mind at the time, the TC form can be practised in so many different ways according to what is in your head and heart at the time. You may choose 'warrior', 'monk', 'sick' (drunken)or 'basic' - you may choose to accent 'snake', 'tiger', or 'crane' you can mix them up indefinitely according to the shades of your moods or what your body is 'asking' for at the time.

I prefer the intuitive to the analytical. I try not to think in words. I like the chinese way of allowing you to use your imagination and intuition. The ability to understand without having to explain means you learn faster, the method of direct transmission and 'chap sau' means that you simply experience directly. In Iaido the japanese call it 'Jikiden' but I had to introduce the idea into my Karate.

The understanding I felt I gained from the TTC was like this - I can translate the wisdom to suit the problem. The underlying ethos and principles contained within tai chi are also complete, you use what you need at the time, other parts can remain dormant until required.

#89230 - 03/01/05 10:02 PM Re: Tao Te Ching

MrEd / Bossman.

I don't know whether Lao Tze will be happy or surprised or maybe both, seeing how his "manual for virtuous living" is used by people whose existence he couldn't possibly have known (unless he could astral travel to the future) and in such creative ways he never imagined, even for him!

Still he was at "fault" for writing in such broad, and to me, ambiguous terms; maybe it was not broad to him; just our own (my at least) lack of real understanding. Like Bossman says or to the effect, 'whatever is your thing'

Lao Tze must have been a great conversationalist. Legend has it that Confucius met him -- if only there was someone to take down notes.

Since you guys are at it, I'll just join in and dig something up for discussion later.


Something to think about. Do what you did at high speed. First between points near to each other and then between points farther apart. Don't worry about the meridians. If a train travels from town A to town B, it has to travel on tracks already laid out.

Its good to do some large muscle stretching and major joints loosening first.

See you guys later.

#89231 - 03/02/05 02:20 AM Re: Tao Te Ching
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3403
Loc: MiddleEarth
Some very interesting reading in here! [IMG][/IMG]

Its a great pity that my time at the moment is so limited and I do not get as much time to sit and read as many posts as I'd like to, particularly this type of post.

I particularly liked your poem butterfly palms, it reminded me of some of the work I've done with reiki using the hara circuit and the profound effects it had on myself and my patient as the ki flowed...

I'm going thru a sort of epiphany at the moment, looking at life and other things, so reading some of the TTC has been very insightful.

I particularly liked chapter 36:

If one wishes to shrink it
One must first expand it
If one wishes to weaken it
One must first strengthen it
If one wishes to discard it
One must first promote it
If one wishes to seize it
One must first give it
This is called subtle clarity
The soft and weak overcomes the tough and strong
Fish cannot leave the depths
The sharp instruments of the state
Cannot be shown to the people

If we wish to reduce something, to make something smaller, we must first expand it. After it is stretched out, it will naturally shrink back down to size.

Similarly, if we wish to weaken something, we must first strengthen it. The seed of weakness invariably exists in the greatest of strengths.

In order for something to be discarded or abandoned, it is first promoted. The world is full of examples of things that are hyped up and then thrown away and forgotten without a second thought.

In order to get something, we must first give it. For instance, if we wish to be treated kindly, we must start by treating others with kindness. This works because the Tao process is circular; the principle underlying all interactions is one of dynamic, universal energy exchange.

We say that these illuminated insights are subtle, because they seem to be the very opposite of our habitual thought patterns. To understand them is to become enlightened in the subtle workings of the Tao.

That which is gentle, soft and weak seems to yield to that which possesses toughness, strength and aggressiveness, but the yielding is deceptive, for in the end the soft overcomes the hard.

It is the nature of the Tao to remain hidden. Just as the fish does not leave the depths and a country does not display its weapons and inner workings to the people, a sage remains deeply immersed in the Tao and does not utilize his or her insights against people who are more shallow.


It all keeps coming back to energy
Humans are energy creatures
all matter is energy
all thought is energy

There is no such thing as co-incidence
All things happen for a reason
Just because we do not know the reason now, it doesn't mean that there is no reason.
Rather we should be like water and just flow

#89232 - 03/02/05 05:00 AM Re: Tao Te Ching
Bossman Offline

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
Hi Jane!

My version says for chapter 36:
That which shrinks
Must first expand.
That which fails
Must first be strong.
That which is cast down
Must first be raised.
Before receiving
There must be giving.

This is called perception of the nature of things.
Soft and weak overcome the hard and strong.

Fish cannot leave deep waters,
And a country's weapons should not be displayed.

This could also be viewed as the opponent must physically and mentally expand to be shrunk and become strong to attack and fail, for him to be felled, his chi must first be raised, he has to give energy out to receive it (skilfully) back.

Thus the soft and the weak overcome the hard and strong with these principles.

So called 'strong' people normally need a lot of support (fish cannot leave deep waters) and a strong display of weaponary will raise fear and cause strategic opposition from others. (look at USA China North Korea Iraq etc).

#89233 - 03/02/05 02:28 PM Re: Tao Te Ching
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3403
Loc: MiddleEarth
[IMG][/IMG] thanks Steve!

I'm definitely going to get a copy of the TTC now so I can study it further because it is ringing large bells with me.

#89234 - 03/02/05 04:36 PM Re: Tao Te Ching
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3403
Loc: MiddleEarth

#89235 - 03/03/05 07:26 AM Re: Tao Te Ching
Bossman Offline

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
This is my 'bump'..

The wise therefore rule by emptying hearts and stuffing bellies,
by weakening ambitions and strengthening bones.
If people lack knowledge and desire,
then intellectuals will not try to interfere.
If nothing is done, all is well.

Just different ways to view this:
emptying hearts and stuffing bellies - using the conception vessel meridian properly and draining chi to the dantien centres you. As does weakening ambitions (by draining the chi and letting it 'sit' in your bones) and strengthening bones.

Not seeking intellectual knowledge or desiring to 'be' something you learn faster by intuition and working in the 'wordless mind' intellectuals will NEVER understand how that works.

'Doing nothin' is doing something, the classics say in activity there should be inactivity and in inactivity there should be activity' - not to make a decision unless you have to often makes life run more smoothly. Doing nothing can often be an excellent strategy.

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