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#89206 - 02/22/05 07:55 PM Re: Tao Te Ching


You mean it actually makes sense to you? [IMG][/IMG]

Where were you in 1975. I could have taken lessons from you [IMG][/IMG]

I think the interpretation is better than the poem; you actually made me see something new in the poem. It was of course 30 years ago and the paper on which it was written (hand-written of course; word-processing, for me, was still 20 years away) has turned yellow.

My one great regret in life is not to have continued where I left off then; due to work pressure and other commitments. However about 7 seven years ago my doctor said I have 6 months to live, the big "C". Talking about sending chills (not chi) up your spine. The most frightening words in any language.

So I went back to it out of desparation. Its 7 years later now. I believe it is due to my foundation in chi gung and the IMA that is keeping me alive these past years.

As promised, more on TTC later.

Keep at it. Don't regret like me.

[This message has been edited by ButterflyPalm (edited 02-23-2005).]

#89207 - 02/22/05 10:52 PM Re: Tao Te Ching

Holy crap you guys are smart. I should really pick this book up and try to understand it. Where could I get a copy of it? Can I just go out to a super crown or will I actually have to find the book on e bay or something?

#89208 - 02/23/05 01:13 AM Re: Tao Te Ching
nenipp Offline

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
You can find a copy just about anywhere, but for us who don't speak or read chinese, the quality of interpretation and comments/footnotes is a big issue.
I would suggest consulting someone you trust and that has insight in these things and ask him/her to point out a good edition in a language you're comfortable with.

I think you'll find it was worth the trouble..

#89209 - 02/23/05 01:45 AM Re: Tao Te Ching

would it be better for me to wait a while until i learn Chinese or should i just try reading a translated version of it now. i think mr ed could point me in the right direction of o good copy

#89210 - 02/23/05 02:47 AM Re: Tao Te Ching
Bossman Offline

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
The TTC was the turning point in my life. In the early seventies I was an 'angry' karate nidan just wanting to fight the world. I knew that I had to change and started to attend tai chi classes I found them really frustrating and difficult but my sifu had patience with me. One day he gave me the TTC and suggested I read it, not having read a book in school let alone afterwards (I was in my twenties) I started to read and and had a direct understanding of the philosphy. I then started to read on zen, buddhism, all kinds of philosophy and continued my training in both arts (and others) to this day.

The TTC was without a doubt the turning point of my life and I still read it myself and to my students on a regular basis.

Butterfly: an insightful poem, do you mind if I put it on my website?

#89211 - 02/23/05 05:55 AM Re: Tao Te Ching
Fisherman Offline

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
One of my favorite things about the TTC is that every time I read it, it shows me something new.
The further I get into Baguazhang the more the meanings within this book evolve.

#89212 - 02/23/05 07:40 AM Re: Tao Te Ching

Hey guys, thanks for the insight....

Anybody care to share their favorite chapter, or the meaning they've acquired?

Saber, click on the link at the top of this thread, these are the translations from, which, of all the differnt ones i've read, ive liked the best. those guys have studied for years, and have from what i can tell to be a strong command of the chinese language. They havent finished translating it completely, but they have about 3/4 of the chapter's translated, as well as additional stories and anecdotes.

For a good introduction, i suggest you read benjamin hoff's "The Tao of Pooh" which uses that silly bear to illustrate the principles quite nicely.

One chapter I really like is: Chapter 40
Using's translation and interpretation:

The returning is the movement of the Tao
The weak is the utilization of the Tao
The myriad things of the world are born of being
Being is born of non-being

Their interpretation:

That which reverses course, reflects back, or returns to its point of origin characterizes the cyclical motions of the Tao. Because the Tao process underlies everything in existence, we observe its cycles reflected everywhere in the universe.

That which exhibits weakness, a soft touch, or a yielding nature characterizes the function and utilization of the Tao. This is because the Tao drives life forward endlessly, and the living is always pliant and flexible while death is invariably stiff and unyielding.

The above applies to the mind as well. An awareness that is in tune with the Tao is open to possibilities and adaptable to new ways of thinking. In contrast, a mind that stubbornly clings to preconceptions and automatically rejects anything different is, in a real sense, already dead.

This applies at least for me to the practice and movements of Tai Chi.

Saber, it may help to think of the Tao as the endless creative force that from our current perspective cannot be described. It may be enough to accept that there is Tao, and not try to analyze it. Lao Tzu even says in the very beginning of the book that "the Tao that can be descirbed is not the real Tao"

An example would be the cyclic nature of creation and destruction. One cannot exist without the other, and this is but one process of the Tao that drives evolution/existance forward. There are many others and they are all interelated, so Lao Tzu suggests appreciating the beauty of creation and going with the flow so to speak.

From a martial aspect, finding and becoming one with this "flow" is vital to many internal techniques.

I for one, havent even come close to "flowing" yet....

#89213 - 02/23/05 03:06 PM Re: Tao Te Ching

wow thats really crazy that you recommend that book. My mom just bought it for me. She knows that I am into that whole destiny thing. I read a chapter or 2 but then I put it down. A week ago I found it and started reading it again. Weird right?

#89214 - 02/24/05 08:45 AM Re: Tao Te Ching

I'm glad that you got well. Your presence here is appreciated.
Maybe that goes without saying, but anyway.

#89215 - 02/24/05 09:27 AM Re: Tao Te Ching

Yeah, I second that....

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