you can look at it this way although its probably not correct.

Basically the internal martial arts and chi are all based off of taosist meditation. Basically you are meditating: calming your mind, connecting your body, making yourself one. Because its taoist in nature your goal is enlightenment.

The basic chi-gung principles of hsingi, bagwa, and tai chi, along with the mixed internal/external MA's are all taoist meditation techniques. When you practice these and apply them to a martial art you add internal strength what would typically be an external move. External is hard, your tensing your muscles and trying to hit with everything you have. In internal you are soft, relaxed, and moving your body with your mind.

I suspect if your getting crap from some moderators you were talking dragon ball z speak. Please...whatever you do don't think of chi as some magical force you can use to kick peoples ass with or make you some superior human.

many westerners concept of chi is just off the wall magic hokus pokus stuff. get that out of your mind. Find an IMA teacher and start learning why they are called "internal".

[This message has been edited by hardluck (edited 02-28-2005).]

Leo:

If you just simply transliterate the ideogram for qi, then it does mean "air". However, there is much more to it than that. Perhaps we can dig into the subject later...or I can give you a long list of reference books to can check out for yourself.

Hardluck:

I would have to disagree with you. In only one Chinese internal art was I ever taught meditation and it was not necessarily of the Taoist school. In all my time in Chen Shi Taijiquan, not once was Taoism broached as a major component of the system. Nor was I ever taught meditation. Of all of the Xingyiquan people that I know, Taoism was not an issue at all. With some Baguazhang people it was, but that was very minimal and was more an adjunct to understanding the triagrams of the Bagua.

As a general guideline and rule of thumb, a martial art can be considered to be internal if it is one that teaches (directly or indirectly) methods in which you reduce the amount of li (regualr muscular strength) to perform techniques and increase the amount of jin (internal energy) used to perform techniques. There are other aspects, but in my opinion, they grow off of this one basic premise.

The whole Taoist slant comes from the fables concerning Zhang Sen Feng (Chang Sen Feng). The only problem here is that there are some serious holes in this theory as to when he actually lived and even if he (as a true person) ever actually existed. I would take the whole Taoist issue with a grain of salt and suggest you do some hard personal research into the issue.

Michael

[QUOTE]Originally posted by meijin:
Leo:

If you just simply transliterate the ideogram for qi, then it does mean "air". However, there is much more to it than that. Perhaps we can dig into the subject later...or I can give you a long list of reference books to can check out for yourself.

Hardluck:

I would have to disagree with you. In only one Chinese internal art was I ever taught meditation and it was not necessarily of the Taoist school. In all my time in Chen Shi Taijiquan, not once was Taoism broached as a major component of the system. Nor was I ever taught meditation. Of all of the Xingyiquan people that I know, Taoism was not an issue at all. With some Baguazhang people it was, but that was very minimal and was more an adjunct to understanding the triagrams of the Bagua.

As a general guideline and rule of thumb, a martial art can be considered to be internal if it is one that teaches (directly or indirectly) methods in which you reduce the amount of li (regualr muscular strength) to perform techniques and increase the amount of jin (internal energy) used to perform techniques. There are other aspects, but in my opinion, they grow off of this one basic premise.

The whole Taoist slant comes from the fables concerning Zhang Sen Feng (Chang Sen Feng). The only problem here is that there are some serious holes in this theory as to when he actually lived and even if he (as a true person) ever actually existed. I would take the whole Taoist issue with a grain of salt and suggest you do some hard personal research into the issue.

Michael[/QUOTE]

Thank you Michael, I am half Chinese and the concept of Chi has been part of my life for quite a while. While at this point I understand only an oversimplified definition of Chi, I didn't want to let shadowdragon think that his valid request to learn about the accepted form of Chi was in vain. (I do not personally use Chi in my MA)

I would be quite interested to see any material you have about Chi and perhaps how it relates to modern scientific understanding if possible.

Well, the National Center for Complimentary and Alternative Medicine (which is a part of the Natioanl Institutes of Health or NIH) has an interesting website at:
http://nccam.nih.gov/

Using their search feature with words like qi, qigong, acupuncture, etc. will bring up some interesting reading.

If you have anything specific to discuss, I'd be happy to.

Michael

Thanks a lot man,

It's much appreciated and very interesting. Especially the stuff on putative energy fields.