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#88802 - 01/16/05 07:55 PM Re: My chi experiences & yours
Anonymous
Unregistered


Each and every atom and all particles making up the atom (discovered or yet to be discovered)in your body were NOT created when you were fertilised in the womb and grew there. The atoms / particles were already formed and in existence at the very moment of creation of the universe itself, whenever that event might have been.

So IF there is a Creator, whatever we little humans in this insignificant corner of the Universe might think we know "Him" as, we must certainly figure somewhere in His plans. We live such relatively short lives that it is impossible to see the Big Picture.

Buddha claimed to be able to see 500 of his own past lives. To me that is still but a tiny bit.

Some people wish to think that the Universe itself is one gigantic "living, breathing" organism, and we are just one atom / particle in this "Universal Body" and the death of stars are just like the death of cells in our own bodies.

So the ancient 'immortals' therefore claimed to be able to, through their meditation, 'tap' into this 'universal energy' and 'see' through all the illusionary images created to mislead us and therefore keep us in our place and preserve our fragile sanity, to KNOW the TRUTH.

And so we hear over and over again that "chi" is the universal / cosmic energy which inhabits this universal body, and we, together with every grain of sand and blade of grass, being a part thereof should also be imbued with it.

[This message has been edited by ButterflyPalm (edited 01-16-2005).]

[This message has been edited by ButterflyPalm (edited 01-16-2005).]

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#88803 - 01/17/05 02:35 AM Re: My chi experiences & yours
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think you two both understand me. At the moment scientist know - anything broken down far enough is either an electron, proton, neutron. They believe that these are all made of even smaller circular strings of energy - The whole universal body is contructed with these. what makes these things come together in different forms depends on how they expand, contraCT, twist/move & rotate (faster/slower) etc...

So everything has chi because I believe chi 'is' everything... is chi GOD?

This is why I am making my own art - which allows (by trial & error) to absorb chi almost instantainiously from anywhere.
I walk everywhere ffor miles - I walk 6 miles home from my training centre, I can meditate whilst I walk - and focus on raising my maximum chi level & absorbtion rate, to a certain amont of success.

I believe meditation is a versitile tool of the brain which can be used to get over almost any internal problem or achieve any internal goal - this is why I believe in meditating on what u want when it comes to chi.

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#88804 - 01/17/05 12:00 PM Re: My chi experiences & yours
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Meditation is a marvellous tool to help the mind-body connection.

Moving meditation [such as walking] has been used for eons by monks and others and is a very effective method.

Tank, you are correct when you say that grounding is important for ki to move, it is very important to be properly grounded so that you don't end up with stagnant energy being trapped and/or picking up energy which is negative and bad. Remember to drink plenty of water before and after sessions to aid grounding and removal of toxins. What do you do as a grounding exercise? Visualising the roots of a giant tree growing out of your legs and into the deep earth can be very useful. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

There have been some very interesting posts here, and I've really enjoyed reading this particular topic. Butterfly Palm also raises some interesting and thought provoking ideas...

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#88805 - 01/17/05 12:27 PM Re: My chi experiences & yours
Anonymous
Unregistered


AT a higher level in IMA, that's exactly what someone does, they can absorb energy at any moment and then release it out. And it is always circular.

However, in a real situation, you have to be spontaneous, as the opponent does not just do what you want. Well,sometimes they might

[This message has been edited by serious pain (edited 01-17-2005).]

[This message has been edited by serious pain (edited 01-17-2005).]

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#88806 - 01/17/05 07:58 PM Re: My chi experiences & yours
Anonymous
Unregistered


Tank.

If you are able to 'absorb' chi from anywhere as you walk, then, do not do so while walking along polluted streets.

Chi works at the cellular level. Cell damage may occur if all these pollutants are fed into them constantly and at high levels.

Do what the ancients did -- find a quiet stream in a wooded area with large trees. Do your 'chi exchange' with these 'clean' trees.

"Pull" the energy from a group of large trees into your body and down to your soles as you breath in and 'return' it back to the trees as you breath out. Ten minutes will be enough. Best of course in the early morning when the oxygen level is high and clean.

Eyes shut or open as you wish.

Important to have happy positive thoughts.

After each session, clench your fists and notice the extra strength in them? Your body is already working at a higher level of efficiency.

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#88807 - 01/19/05 10:45 AM Re: My chi experiences & yours
Anonymous
Unregistered


ButterflyPalm:

I would have to disagree with your post above...at least in part.

First, I would disagree with you that qi works at the cellular level. If this were the case, we would be able to "see" qi and measure it. This is not the case right now and is why Western science/medicine has such a hard time with the concept. I would agree that qi can effect things at the cellular level, but not that it works at the cellular level.

Second, I would also disagree with your comments concerning the introduction of qi based on your location (city with pollutants as opposed to the more pure country)...and there are a couple of points here...

As to the comment that says that prolonged ingestion of these pollutants can cellular damage. This again goes back to the first point that I disagreed with (that qi works at the cellular level), but even if it did or you continue to maintain that it does, there is no hard evidence to prove this point that you make as statement of fact. I really am not trying to be nit-picky here, but for those of us that practice the various energetic arts ever wish to be taken seriously by the scientific and/or medical community at large (which I think is important to happen as that will open up grant dollars and more experiments and research into the field...thus resulting in more advances to benefit all of us), then we need to state things correctly. A blanket statement such as you have made would be an example of this. Based on that, I would challenge you to produce any sort of evidence that would indicate or show that qigong exercises done in a polluted area has caused any sort of damage to eukaryotic cells. I do not mean the challenge in a dergatory sense.

Also, while these qi types of gathering exercises are certainly not optimum when done in such a "polluted" environment, we are forgetting a basic principle of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM). The body contains a set of three "burners" or "heaters" (depending on how you translate from the Chinese). One of the main purposes of the "burner system" is the purification or distallation of external qi that is taken in. this is why it is so important (and why it is the first thing that I teach in qigong and kiko) to learn the microcosmic orbit (Xiao Zhou Tian or Shoshyuten if you prefer). The process of intake, distallation, process and distribute when it comes to the energetic system is natural and unless we are talking some extreme or dire circumstances should not be a problem.

Lastly, I will agree to the benefits of the "country" setting for qigong/kiko practice. I have been very fortunate to have been trained in some of the ways and methods of the Dragon Gate sect of the Complete Reality School of Taoism(Long Men Chuan Chen Tao). Some of the qigong exercises require the use of such a setting and trees in particular. Some even go so far as to require specific and special trees. So, everything has a time, a place and a use.

Anyway, thanks for taking this message in the spirit that it was intended and I hope that we can enjoy further conversations regarding these topics.

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#88808 - 01/19/05 07:50 PM Re: My chi experiences & yours
Anonymous
Unregistered


Meijin.

Your input is much appreciated; most of all by Tank, I think, because he / she may not be able to find a quiet stream in a wooded area in the city.

Seeing that you are involved in 'cellular engineering' I can understand your requirement for scientific proof. At least, however, we can agree that 'chi' does have an "effect" at the cellular level; whether it "works" at the cellular level or not can be left to another day for scientific consideration.

For the moment, how this 'effect' will work itself out in the long term practice of chi gung in a polluted environment is, I suppose at best, left unanswered. I for one will err on the side of caution; opening or closing of research grants notwithstanding.

Please do not take this in the wrong way (as we all know scientific methods as we understand them today, just like chi gung, have their own limitations) but I suppose Tank and everybody else may have to wait a while for the proof you require; unless of course some other member on the Forum have something to offer.

There is one cogent example from the tobacco industry which is illustrative of the issue at hand. For many decades this industry has demanded scientific proof from objectors that cigarette smoking has a direct causative link to lung cancer, while maintaining, understandably, that there was no scientific proof as such.

On the 'purification & distillation' point you brought up; well, these were ideas formulated in the days when pollution levels were not as there are today. My view is, there is only so much the body, even through chi gung practice, can do. There is always an 'overloading' point beyond which something has to give. Why give the body more stress than necessary? unless of course it is impossible to find a quiet stream in a wooded area; in which case one has to take a chance, I suppose.

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#88809 - 01/20/05 08:35 AM Re: My chi experiences & yours
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ki balls are your imagination-theres nothing there.

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#88810 - 01/20/05 09:39 AM Re: My chi experiences & yours
Anonymous
Unregistered


ButterflyPalm:

Please be aware that I am not at all trying to indicate the I personally need any sort of scientific proof in regards to qi, qigong, the benefits of either or anything of the sort. I have been involved as a practioner/teacher of qigong and various energetic arts for some time now and have all of the evidence/proof that I personally need. My comments concern the community at large (i.e. that outside of the martial arts community) and most specifically the Western medical and/or scientific community. To be able to begin to get them to "see the light" and have the type of funding and research put into this topic that is going to get tangible results is going to require those of us that are already in the "qi camp" to be quite careful in the blanket types of statements that we make.

While on the scientific topic, let's use your example of smoking cigarettes. There is a whole can of worms in and of itself...but I think a good one to illustrate the point. Yes, the cigarette making industry wanted scientific proof. Why (other than for financial motives)? Because the scientists still cannot understand nor show why it is that some folks can smoke 3 packs a day for 50 years and never get cancer or related illnesses and the non-smoking wife or husband of a smoker can get lung cancer after only a couple of years of being exposed to second hand smoke. Much of the reserach now indicates a pre-disposition to such cancers (and other types of illnesses). With the recent breakthrough of decoding human DNA, researchers are now getting close to being able to do a test that will score an individual on their percentile chances of contracting such illnesses. To me, this is excellent on two fronts. First, I think it will possibly lead to some research and is tied to prenatal qi. For those that practice and understand Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), we can easily understand and see how it is that some folks can partake of something like smoking and have it not effect them and others get a diluted by product and get the disease...and it goes hand in hand with pre-disposition. Second, I think that this holds tremendous possibilities as to the benefits of qigong. If we get to the point where DNA analysis shows such a predisposition, what would the same DNA analysis of person show after 6 months of qigong work? If we see a verifiable change to the analysis, then we begin to establish "hard" evidence that the qigong had an effect. The next 3 to 5 years should be interesting indeed!

As to the "purification and distillation" issue...you state:

"these were ideas formulated in the days when pollution levels were not as there are today"

My response (without being sarcastic) is so what? This process is built into the human energetic system for just this reason. To deal with the "unknown" environmental conditions. Remember, the "qi process" (using a very simplistic term) happens with every breath that we take. And remember, the pressure/vital points that are on the external meridians serve as a vortex...so, to some degree or another...there is a constant flow in and out of them. With the increased pollutant environs, people should be dropping dead like crazy if this distillation and purification process was not at work...especially with the increased life expectancy we have. Granted, alot of the increase there has to do with advances in medical science in being able to sustain life past where they could in the past...but life expectancy is still many decades longer than it was a few hundred or a thousand years ago. The three burner system of the body is that protection mechanism. Again, some systems may not be the best, but our energetic system is capable of taking all of that into consideration and dealing with it. Know what I mean?

Anyway...enough rambling from me for now. Thanks for the constructive conversation!

Michael

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#88811 - 01/21/05 02:55 AM Re: My chi experiences & yours
Anonymous
Unregistered


Butterfly palm - I can believe that chi works on a cellular level, because of the theory of 'circular loops of energy' which I have previously talked about as 'string theory'. If the theory is correct then these loops of energy we call chi would be far to minute for us to see - But it is like a monet painting - Everything is made up "completly" of these loops of energy but we can get close enough to see them individually. So it does function on a cellular level - But also on any level (do you get me?) so pollution itself is chi - but negetively charged - so I sould avoid it [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] Thanks ButterflyPalm [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

I have found a lovely spot buzzing with energy at a circle of small old stones (many around britain) near a stream with some cherry trees there too. I wish i could show it you - it seems as though the pagans or whatever may have known of Chi.

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